Wado Myth: Where and Why do I have to kiai in kata?

[wadoka]

This has been mulling over in my mind last night for some reason so I starting this thread just to expunge it so I am not wide awake at 4am again.

I have been on courses where people have asked where are the points in a kata where you have to kiai, or whether kushanku has 3 or 4 kiai (or whatever the number is), and the question has been met by a blank look from some of the Japanese instructors or a long talk by Jiro Ohtsuka.

I noticed a reviewer's comment on Amazon after buying the Ohgami Kata Book that they were slightly disappointed as the book didn't show where the kiai points were.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews ... ewpoints=1

I checked the two JKF Shitei Kata Books and for the non-Wado kata they state where the kiai points are, for Wado there were none indicated.

Shiomitsu sensei's syllabus books don't indicate a kiai in kata. When flicking through I saw for a section on kihon kumite when withdrawing back to kamae he says to maintain the correct maai, and correct kiai (probably touch on this later).

Suzuki sensei's Karate-Do book doesn't have kiai points when describing kushanku.

From the depths of the Yahoo mailing list, there was a detailed explanation. I will post the link here but not the content as time has passed and I would prefer to give them a chance to update or reiterate and not set it in stone here.

http://sports.dir.groups.yahoo.com/grou ... ssage/6304

So, why are people both in the mainstream and outside fixated on the kiai points? I have heard people say that such and such did a kiai in the wrong place, or people should fail the grading because they got it wrong or docked points in kata competition.

I have a feeling this is going to be a multi-level answer for people at different stages of their Wado lifetime...

[WadoAJ]

in short. there is no need for any kiai.
but it is an interesting point though. I have been told that each kata has its keypoints. I guess some add kiai to keypoints. I used to do kiai but honestly can't remember on which moves..

AJ

edit: of all the videos I have seen, the better sensei are quite silent..

[WadoAJ]

I checked the two JKF Shitei Kata Books and for the non-Wado kata they state where the kiai points are, for Wado there were none indicated.

never noticed that! wonder about the reasoning.. the book is written for competitors after all?

[Tim49]

It all depends on what your understanding of Kiai is. It doesn't have to be about making noise.

Tim

[WadoAJ]

It all depends on what your understanding of Kiai is. It doesn't have to be about making noise.

Tim

thats right Tim, but I thought this was strictly referring to the shout?

AJ

[zim]

Hi wadoka,

In the spirit of Easter and the depths of an akvavit filled Saturday afternoon I figured I would throw my 2 cents (pents) in (although worth considerably less). In regards to kushanku, we always trained first kiai after the migi yonhan nukite chudan and the second after the tobi geri and uraken.

God påske (happy Easter).

Chris

[wadoka]

I've also done on the uraken in the middle of the kata, but who's counting :-)

[zim]

I've also done on the uraken in the middle of the kata, but who's counting :-)

I've heard a few slip there as well as before the dreaded 43rd move.

On a side note, no kiais listed in the shitei kata bible for Wado, eh?

Does that officially make Wado the redheaded stepchild of WKF karate?

[oneya]

.
Why do I have to kiai in kata? might be an interesting discussion.?

oneya

[wadoka]

I can modify the thread title to Where/Why and it can all stay here. Or do you think we need a separate thread?