Question for Oneya (and others)

[WadoAJ]

I think it ultimately comes down to the sensei. I guess qualities of the olds chool instruction is the overcoming of fear, perseverance etc etc. Perhaps nowadays different methods are used, but it is not impossible to become a strong person. Dojo that including more talk and fun then keiko and renshu are to avoid I guess ?

AJ

No I don’t believe so AJ. There is no doubt in my mind that a good instructor is a vital part of the equation but it is down to the individual’s spirit, motive and tenacity. The invincible black belted hero has largely been a piece of confection manufactured by today’s media and today’s society, mostly without having a clue about the discipline and tenacity and durability required to get to the starting point of a kuro obi. These are the qualities necessary for the individual to have for his journey. If he/she hasn’t got these qualities in abundance then the sensei has nothing to work with.

oneya

Thats right oneya, in the end it is the motivation and effort of the individual. I have verbalized incorrectly, but tried to mention that you will not get there if you have a sensei who is not serious. Perhaps the individual can choose to change sensei, but if someone is blanc when he starts this may not occur? On the other hand, individuals with certain characters will feel something is missing or prefer a different type of class. It is individual anyway. Thanks for your correction, i was drawn towards the type of class too much.
AJ

[blackcat]

Just going back to the question about why Fujii sensei originally came to the UK, obviously, it tended to be the case that the people Suzuki sensei brought over were his close group, or else people who were recommended to him as having an ability to handle themselves well. Whilst this was important in establishing karate in England, it was also the case in Japan where strong free fighting skills were very much the norm in the university clubs and indeed, were one of the main objectives of the university training programme.

So you see in the first group of instructors - Kono, Yamashita and Toyama, three loyal students/ friends of Tatsuo Suzuki all with good fighting ability, whose skills were learnt pretty much before the modern form of competition rules were in widespread use (Yamashita apparently came to 'get even' with Kono after a sparring accident).

1965group.jpg

L-R: Mochizuki, Kono, Suzuki, Yamashita and Toyama

[Edit: deleted paragraph - need to check my facts properly]

Fujii was actually the only member of the team who achieved that top position. Maeda Tadayuki was a runner up in the 1968 university championships and both Shiomitsu and Kitamura were member of the winning university teams (Nichidai and Nodai respectively) in their years, but were not individual all Japan university champions themselves.

Ben

[mspain]

Fujii was actually the only member of the team who achieved that top position. Maeda Tadayuki was a runner up in the 1968 university championships and both Shiomitsu and Kitamura were member of the winning university teams (Nichidai and Nodai respectively) in their years, but were not individual all Japan university champions themselves.

Ben

Hello, Ben.

What about Kiyohisa Hirano?

Mike

[blackcat]

Fujii was actually the only member of the team who achieved that top position. Maeda Tadayuki was a runner up in the 1968 university championships and both Shiomitsu and Kitamura were member of the winning university teams (Nichidai and Nodai respectively) in their years, but were not individual all Japan university champions themselves.

Ben

Hello, Ben.

What about Kiyohisa Hirano?

Mike

Hi Mike

I guess I was limiting my comment to Europe. Hirano went to Hawaii. Did he place in one of the championships?

Ben

[blackcat]

Mentioned in my earlier post about Kono and others, here is a photo of them all:

1965group.jpg (52.56 KiB) Viewed 9199 times

L-R: Mochizuki, Kono, Suzuki, Yamashita and Toyama

Ben

[mspain]

Hi Mike

I guess I was limiting my comment to Europe. Hirano went to Hawaii. Did he place in one of the championships?

Hello, Ben.

I think Hirano won kumite in 1960. He may have been team captain in 1961. He went to live in Hawaii in 1962. I think Shiomitsu Sensei would know.

Mike

[zim]

Hi Mike

I guess I was limiting my comment to Europe. Hirano went to Hawaii. Did he place in one of the championships?

Hello, Ben.

I think Hirano won kumite in 1960. He may have been team captain in 1961. He went to live in Hawaii in 1962. I think Shiomitsu Sensei would know.

Mike

Hi Guys,

You can read about Kiyohisa Hirano's history here: http://www.jikc-hq.org/history.html

In 1960 it does state he won the kumite. The history makes no mention though of Wado or any reference to how he originally came to Hawaii with the Wado delegation as stated above..

I wonder why the dissociation (if there is one).

Chris

[mspain]

Hi Guys,

You can read about Kiyohisa Hirano's history here: http://www.jikc-hq.org/history.html

In 1960 it does state he won the kumite. The history makes no mention though of Wado or any reference to how he originally came to Hawaii with the Wado delegation as stated above..

I wonder why the dissociation (if there is one).

Chris

You can find out some about how Hirano came to Hawaii in Tatsuo Suzuki's latest book; on the Hawaii Karate Seinenkai web site; and maybe on some web sites in Walter Nishioka's organization.

I doubt you will get any answer regarding "dissociation".... it is not talked about.

I would caution to not totally believe some things you hear unless you hear it from someone that knows from first hand experience.

MSPain

[zim]

Hi Guys,

You can read about Kiyohisa Hirano's history here: http://www.jikc-hq.org/history.html

In 1960 it does state he won the kumite. The history makes no mention though of Wado or any reference to how he originally came to Hawaii with the Wado delegation as stated above..

I wonder why the dissociation (if there is one).

Chris

You can find out some about how Hirano came to Hawaii in Tatsuo Suzuki's latest book; on the Hawaii Karate Seinenkai web site; and maybe on some web sites in Walter Nishioka's organization.

I doubt you will get any answer regarding "dissociation".... it is not talked about.

I would caution to not totally believe some things you hear unless you hear it from someone that knows from first hand experience.

MSPain

Thanks for the info about the book. I noticed on the website it made no mention of Wado Ryu so the comment about "dissociation" was merely my own musings. Conjecture is often best left to one's self, eh?

cheers,

chris

[oneya]

In the 60s there was a wado ryu connection but Hirano obviously changed direction.

http://vimeo.com/15902417


oneya