Dealing With Issues

[zim]

Ray

The replies and answers on here came come thick and fast at times, and also on different levels.

If you look at the thread on Ohtsuka sensei teaching at the Goju Kai there is the explanation of Ohtsuka teaching jodan uke. If you look at this sequence http://www.wado.co.uk/Wado.co.uk/Series_3.html you will also see jodan uke. In the lessons we get told this is what jodan uke is, attack.

Through the process we are told different things, but the lessons/course are full of different people at different levels. One thing that is consistent is the mindset of attack.

Talking about defence has it's appropriate moments to get people off and started but if you get a chance to listen to the people at the top, it is all about attack. There may be attack and defence together but let's just talk attack. That sets the path.

I believe both Wadoka and Oneya's explanation are beautiful in their conciseness. Defence is only a means to an end.. namely the attack.

[Rayedin]

Ray

The replies and answers on here came come thick and fast at times, and also on different levels.

If you look at the thread on Ohtsuka sensei teaching at the Goju Kai there is the explanation of Ohtsuka teaching jodan uke. If you look at this sequence http://www.wado.co.uk/Wado.co.uk/Series_3.html you will also see jodan uke. In the lessons we get told this is what jodan uke is, attack.

Through the process we are told different things, but the lessons/course are full of different people at different levels. One thing that is consistent is the mindset of attack.

Talking about defence has it's appropriate moments to get people off and started but if you get a chance to listen to the people at the top, it is all about attack. There may be attack and defence together but let's just talk attack. That sets the path.

I did write a nice long reply, but deleted it. i do agree in regard to Jodan uke, as i do in regard to all "blocks". unfortunatly my writing style never seems to get over the essense of my intention, nothing like face to face conversations between budoka including all the passion for the subject that body language, facial expression and many minor demo's convey along with words. perhaps i'll lurk and read. (though as a gobby git it may not be easy :))

[wadoka]

Don't feel you need to lurk because of these exchanges. Engage, that is always a strategy for learning and definitely better than lurking from my viewpoint.

[oneya]

.
Hi Ray, thanks for the reply and in order not to run around in circles, can we just clarify that we are talking about wado ryu here so I am only replying and taking your words in the context of wado ryu.

Having said that I realise that the incident you spoke of happened in the context of your Judo and Ju jutsu dojo where the concept of a ‘defensive’ stance may actually have some reference point but in terms of wado ryu philosophy, our practice is based on the Japanese martial art’s edict of ‘ko bo ittai’(where attack and defense are all one) and the reasoning that there is no defense whose prime objective is ‘to defend’. So the intent in wado ryu is always offense. I can do no better than quote you the words of the founder of wado ryu “The prerequisite of defense is offense” So all wado postures have an offensive mindset and are taught as such.

Wadoka is correct of course, it is a matter of mind and motive where – at its most elementary level - defence aims to maintain the status quo whereas attack aims to change the status quo in the attacker’s favour and the mind directs accordingly. What is perhaps relevant here is that the wado ryu for the most part – unlike its Okinawan karate component of self defense as such - has as part of its history and lineage a Japanese koryu which is descendant from Japan’s warfare ethos so it is based on attack and its postures are structured around this mindfulness.

As an aside: There’s nothing really radical about this, if we look at the history of warfare we can see the problems of defensive mindset are manifest in the thinking behind the French Maginot Line built in the 1930s and the Fall of Singapore in 1942, where both ‘defenses’ proved inadequate and both fell accordingly. If we look at the current and recent times it is the threat of nuclear annihilation and the apparent willingness to use it by the greater powers - who are perpetually in the attack mode - that has afforded a large part of the western world its seeming stability since 1945. A moment’s thought will show it is also a concept that permeates the aggressive marketing in the world of commerce in our current times.

To round off the joint locks. I have to think it is not a matter of how many wado practitioners know or practice them but whether they constitute something missing in the wado ryu. My thoughts are that having this duality in lineage where the heritage offers Ohtsuka meijin’s experience in Shindo Yoshin Ryu – a classical sogo bujutsu that has in excess of 300 kata in its curriculum which is the keystone to the wado ryu philosophy - besides the Okinawan karate component so the wado ryu kansetsu is pretty much alive and well for practitioners who have traveled that far.

On the holes that you see in your practice I have to believe we have to look to our own understanding of the whole process of wado ryu before we can make specific judgments.

On one other note Ray, I really think lurking is bad for one’s mental health.

oneya

[Craven]

Hi Ray,

Nice website, I used to train at a BJJA/WJJA club back in the 1980’s. I think I know where you’re coming from and I think what you refer to as a defensive stance would better be described as a non aggressive stance?

I have been more of a lurker in the past but am determined to have a bit more of a contribution, from my low (compared to most on here) understanding of Wado and related Martial Arts on what is turning out to be a brilliant forum.

Hi oneya,

Am I right in saying that in our Wado practise (ie Kihon Gumite, Kumite Gata etc), we should never have defensive thoughts even though we may be deemed as the defender?


BTW Most of the locks & chokes etc that I know have come from the Judo/Ju-Jitsu & Aikido people that I have trained with but, other than the stuff in Wado pairs work, I have not really been taught any of this stuff from my Wado teachers but I guess a syllabus is only a very small part of what Wado is? Also a few years ago I had a fantastic opportunity to train in Blackpool with Toby Threadgill of Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin Kai, and can assure all that there was plenty of small joint manipulation, as well as lots of other wonderful stuff which all related to Wado, taught to us by Sensei Threadgill

[wadoka]

Time for a new thread and another Wado myth buster on the attacking mind. It has been covered before, but always good to review.

New thread will be called Wado Myth - no "karate ni sentenashi" here please, we're Wado.

[oneya]

Ha..! You sound like you've had a good holiday Gordon and now you're ready to rumble:

oneya

[wadoka]

I am still on holiday and there is definitely no rumble of the tummy here.

[oneya]

Ah Gordon, being as this is on the 'Non Martial Arts Talk' section - (and I am wondering how the hell it got there..??) and you are still in Holiday mode perhaps I can go on to say - I have just bought and sampled an exquisite bottle of 2008 red for minimal quids from the Coteaux-Du-Tricastin region. It is where I understand the 'visiting' Romans were drinking wine in the area since the 1st Century so it was meeting all expectations.. Except for the cork which was very dry and more than a bit crumbly - disintegrating is the term that came to mind. So because I was not too ofay with the area I googled the same and discovered that they had applied recently for a name change for the region because it bore the Tricastin region in its name.. Evidently the name is the same name for the Nuclear reactor there that had an accident in 2008 - the same date as this superb wine release date - where an unspecified amount of uranium was released into the surrounding atmosphere... I don't need to tell you this immediately changed the colour of my day and almost changed the colour of my fundoshi too..

The name change was granted and what was Coteaux-Du-Tricastin is now Grignan-Les Adhemar so you - being a gourmet of sorts and bon vivant might want to check out any wine or goodies from the area before swallowing..??

OK, back to the fray..

oneya

[wadoka]

I am in Spain (un)fortunately.