Kakie

[shep]

At our dojo we get together once in a while with a neighbouring Goju Ryu club for a little x training. I always find it beneficial and educational as well as fun to try something new. One of the exercises we have practiced a little is Kakie or pushing hands, where we try and feel the opponents moves. It struck me that a lot of the same language is used in the exercise as we use in our Kihon Gumite and Kumite Gata, words and phrases such as; deflectingthe attack; twisting the hips to re-direct your opponents force; taking your opponents kuzushi; controlling your opponent and close range combat.

Theres a plethora of youtube clips out there for those who aren’t aware of what it is of which this is just one, note the hip twisting at the start and also use of the knee at 28 seconds.



Has anyone else has tried it and if so what do you think of it? – Did it help your wado?

shep

[Tim49]

About 20 years ago I used to train regularly with an Okinawan Goju Ryu group. I used to go there just for the workout, it was pretty full on. This group were part of the Jun Do Kan I loved training with them they were very serious about what they did.
Kakie was an important part of what they did, so we did a lot of it, I enjoyed it but I found it restrictive to work around a quite static Sanchin Dachi. I found myself resorting to type, I would let off the handbrake and slip into Wado gear then I had a lot more pliability and the options opened out for me.

Once the body has the freedom to work in tandem with the hand then you are more clearly in to Wado territory. Also in Wado there is no getting stuck, or obsessing about a particular position, the mind has to move; as soon as it stops the possibilities die.

I am sure that the Goju guys arrived at this same conclusion themselves but coming at it from another angle. Sanchin is so very important to them; it’s their thing, so to speak.

Tim

[wadoka]

Don't make me post my "Wado is heavy and sticky" piece again :-)

[shep]

I certainly understand where your coming from regarding the static nature of the exercise. I just found it interesting the similarities and yet we are almost worlds apart in our respective approaches. But that said narrowing it down to just the pushing hands part I found interesting and to a certain extent useful. I also tended to resort to more wado-esq moves. I guess its the nature of the beast. When the goju guys tried our stuff they resorted to goju type moves. Its an interesting experiment. I enjoyed it.

shep

[claas]

Has anyone else has tried it and if so what do you think of it? – Did it help your wado?

Hello shep,

I have tried one way in which the hand stay on the same horisontal level on a few occasions. It has had it's gains, but then I too feel the immobile stance is a problem. I think some of the gains can also be achieved by intensive punch&receiving-exchange, maintaining that same outside-positioning. Also that can have its problems. But of course, provided one trains Wado a lot, I don't think even the immobile stance is a problem. And if the instructor tells about problems, then the students might not get the wrong idea as easily.

I think an instructor must be very careful when introducing additional drills and perhaps that should only be done whenever the instructor can't get some point clear in any other way. The students aren't generally as fanatic as the instructors and then they most of the time simply get lost if the instructor doesn't mostly keep to the usual stuff. Also it can be difficult for the student to tell what is additional and then people many times specialize, sometimes even outside what's important. A motivated student probably will try many additional drills somewhere anyway.