Hot off the press - I've just heard that Sakagami sensei has been awarded 8th Dan by JKF Wadokai. Congratulations to him
shep
Sakagami Sensei
Re: Sakagami Sensei
I'll second that Shep. I think he received it at the Aiwakai 60 year anniversary event last month.shep wrote:Hot off the press - I've just heard that Sakagami sensei has been awarded 8th Dan by JKF Wadokai. Congratulations to him
shep
Ben
Re: Sakagami Sensei
I'm racking my brains here, does that make him (along with Suzuki) the highest ranking Wadoka in Europe, after Shiomitsu Sensei?
shep
shep
Re: Sakagami Sensei
I believe Jon Wicks of WIKF was graded 8th Dan by Suzuki Sensei as of 2009 Shep.
oneya.
oneya.
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.
http://www.sannoya.com
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.
http://www.sannoya.com
Re: Sakagami Sensei
I don't think its quite like that Shep.
Suzuki has been 8th dan a very long time, his group do not have any higher grade than 8th Dan. Renmei group go to 10th Dan, so there are a couple of 9th dans apart from him. Wadokai group go to 8th Dan (although Arakawa sensei is 9th Dan in JKF), so in Europe there are 2 official 8th Dan JKF Wadokai (Ohgami sensei and Sakagami sensei). Altogether, Wadokai has awarded about 50 8th Dan grades since it started its records (so I am told anyway).
Ben
Suzuki has been 8th dan a very long time, his group do not have any higher grade than 8th Dan. Renmei group go to 10th Dan, so there are a couple of 9th dans apart from him. Wadokai group go to 8th Dan (although Arakawa sensei is 9th Dan in JKF), so in Europe there are 2 official 8th Dan JKF Wadokai (Ohgami sensei and Sakagami sensei). Altogether, Wadokai has awarded about 50 8th Dan grades since it started its records (so I am told anyway).
Ben
Re: Sakagami Sensei
Ahh yes, of course.oneya wrote:I believe Jon Wicks of WIKF was graded 8th Dan by Suzuki Sensei as of 2009 Shep.
oneya.
shep
Re: Sakagami Sensei
For some reason people outside of Japan do not make the distinction of dan grades earned by recommendation or by technical ability.
So far no one outside of Japan, dead or alive has ever earned a technical 8th dan. That means so far no one has been able to pass the test. Everyone is still failing.
Either the test is too difficult or people aren't practicing correctly.
The only one's in Europe who passed a technical 7th dan is Shingo Ohgami, Shuzo Imai and Ollie Brunton.
And then there are people who claim a Wadokai rank when in fact theirs is neither by recommendation or by techincal achievement but instead are from some other organization not related to the Wadokai.
So the Euros on this board has something to strive for - to be the first!. Blackcat, Gary, perhaps someday you guys can be the first true JKF Wadokai 8th dan. Shimura is going for it in a year or two. Kohata is trying next year. I think I have to wait until 2014. It's all about the challenge. It can be done. Shimamoto Sensei passed a few years ago.
So far no one outside of Japan, dead or alive has ever earned a technical 8th dan. That means so far no one has been able to pass the test. Everyone is still failing.
Either the test is too difficult or people aren't practicing correctly.
The only one's in Europe who passed a technical 7th dan is Shingo Ohgami, Shuzo Imai and Ollie Brunton.
And then there are people who claim a Wadokai rank when in fact theirs is neither by recommendation or by techincal achievement but instead are from some other organization not related to the Wadokai.
So the Euros on this board has something to strive for - to be the first!. Blackcat, Gary, perhaps someday you guys can be the first true JKF Wadokai 8th dan. Shimura is going for it in a year or two. Kohata is trying next year. I think I have to wait until 2014. It's all about the challenge. It can be done. Shimamoto Sensei passed a few years ago.
Bob Nash
Re: Sakagami Sensei
I was just thinking. In recent years there is a whole new crop of Westerners that have become really good and there is no reason they can't surpass what the others have not been able to do so far. And these people are still physically young. Robbie Smith, Norma Foster have technical 7th dans. Roberto Danubio, Daniel Humbel, Peter May, Josef Shieffer have 6th dans. Jamie Jewell has a 5th dan and it is only a matter of time before he gets his 6th dan. I only personally know Robbie, Norma, Roberto, Daniel, Josef and Jamie. One of them has physical issues but the others all are potentiallly good enough to get their technical 8th dan. I think this is really exciting and my hope is that the rest of the people will realize that if these people can do it then so can they. It is possible. You just have to train correctly. In the end it has nothing to do with anything fancy. It just comes down to correct kihon. Correct movement. A famous Wadokai kumite instructor in Japan kept failing because he always tried to overpower his tobikomizuki and nagashizuki. That is what kept him from his 8th dan.
Recently Shimura and Katsubei came to the UK. I am sure the people who attended the seminar were able to appreciate what these fine gentlemen had to offer. Clean, concise. Precision. For the most part anyway. Shimura can do stuff that isn't quite right as far as I am concerned. No human should be able to pounce off the floor in kushanku like he does. He doesn't really pounce. He bounces like a superballs. It's just not right...
Recently Shimura and Katsubei came to the UK. I am sure the people who attended the seminar were able to appreciate what these fine gentlemen had to offer. Clean, concise. Precision. For the most part anyway. Shimura can do stuff that isn't quite right as far as I am concerned. No human should be able to pounce off the floor in kushanku like he does. He doesn't really pounce. He bounces like a superballs. It's just not right...
Bob Nash
Re: Sakagami Sensei
Whenever this matter of grade comes up, particularly the very highest grades I am reminded of that illuminating National Geographic documentary re. 8th Dan Kendo examinations in Japan. It explains the spirit behind it beautifully. I think it highlights the differences between the Westerners and the Japanese re. success and the seeking of accolades.
It is as if the act itself matters and the result can go hang in the breeze.
The impression I get is that the Kendo institution itself sets up the infrastructure to have an overt objective and a covert objective. The overt objective is the edifice itself in the body of the officialdom of the ‘test’, it’s essentially hollow, but the covert objective is working at a (dare I say it) spiritual level – as in the forging of the spirit and the associated human qualities. So the rubber stamps, the suits and ties are straw men but everybody is complicit in this – but maybe I’m looking too deeply.
Maybe Yamaoka Tesshu had it right.
I find myself wondering if we in the west give too much importance to the perceived kudos of these grades. My personal thought – what does it matter? It matters nothing to me. If someone is swaggering round with an X-Dan I put more credence on what that person can actually do and also what kind of human being they are; what have their years in the martial arts REALLY taught them? And, conversely I don’t look down on someone who hasn’t got the required piece of paper.
Maybe there should be an 8th Dan test to find out what kind of human being you are?
Just read that back to myself,…sounds like I’m on my soap box….not really, I’m just idly musing.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, Kendo 8th Dan Documentary here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMfPPWkMVY
Tim
It is as if the act itself matters and the result can go hang in the breeze.
The impression I get is that the Kendo institution itself sets up the infrastructure to have an overt objective and a covert objective. The overt objective is the edifice itself in the body of the officialdom of the ‘test’, it’s essentially hollow, but the covert objective is working at a (dare I say it) spiritual level – as in the forging of the spirit and the associated human qualities. So the rubber stamps, the suits and ties are straw men but everybody is complicit in this – but maybe I’m looking too deeply.
Maybe Yamaoka Tesshu had it right.
I find myself wondering if we in the west give too much importance to the perceived kudos of these grades. My personal thought – what does it matter? It matters nothing to me. If someone is swaggering round with an X-Dan I put more credence on what that person can actually do and also what kind of human being they are; what have their years in the martial arts REALLY taught them? And, conversely I don’t look down on someone who hasn’t got the required piece of paper.
Maybe there should be an 8th Dan test to find out what kind of human being you are?
Just read that back to myself,…sounds like I’m on my soap box….not really, I’m just idly musing.
For anyone who hasn't seen it, Kendo 8th Dan Documentary here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMfPPWkMVY
Tim
Re: Sakagami Sensei
Hi Gusei21Gusei21 wrote:I was just thinking. In recent years there is a whole new crop of Westerners that have become really good and there is no reason they can't surpass what the others have not been able to do so far. And these people are still physically young. Robbie Smith, Norma Foster have technical 7th dans. Roberto Danubio, Daniel Humbel, Peter May, Josef Shieffer have 6th dans. Jamie Jewell has a 5th dan and it is only a matter of time before he gets his 6th dan. I only personally know Robbie, Norma, Roberto, Daniel, Josef and Jamie. One of them has physical issues but the others all are potentiallly good enough to get their technical 8th dan. I think this is really exciting and my hope is that the rest of the people will realize that if these people can do it then so can they. It is possible. You just have to train correctly. In the end it has nothing to do with anything fancy. It just comes down to correct kihon. Correct movement. A famous Wadokai kumite instructor in Japan kept failing because he always tried to overpower his tobikomizuki and nagashizuki. That is what kept him from his 8th dan.
Recently Shimura and Katsubei came to the UK. I am sure the people who attended the seminar were able to appreciate what these fine gentlemen had to offer. Clean, concise. Precision. For the most part anyway. Shimura can do stuff that isn't quite right as far as I am concerned. No human should be able to pounce off the floor in kushanku like he does. He doesn't really pounce. He bounces like a superballs. It's just not right...
As you know, two of the guys you mention (Robbie and Jamie) initially learnt Wado with the group I train with.
I only trained with Robbie briefly at the Godalming club (where he handed me my backside during kumite), but Jamie and I go back a little further.
He's a big lad and freakishly strong (great bloke I hasten to add ;) ) but moves like a fly weight - that’s not right and he scares me.
Gary