All Wado Karate Forum

I believe this article has been quite influential and could still be.

http://judoinfo.com/kano6.htm

Jujutsu and the origins of Judo
By Jigoro Kano and T. Lindsay, 1887
(Transactions of the Asiatic Society of Japan, Volume 15)


It tries to sum up the most important stuff about jujutsu history. It also goes into Yoshinryu and the Chinese influence too.

What do you think, how accurate is the content in light of more recent research and discussion? Is there anyone here (active) who has studied jujutsu history and could answer this question?



What is good about it, besides the content, is that it is quite short, informative and written in a way that is pleasant to read.

Ha! The best part: "The originators of new schools seem often times to have made history to suit their own purposes...." Still relevant today.

Certainly Takenouchi-ryū is considered by many who study historical Jujutsu as the most influential extant system.

It is essentially the progenitive school of pretty much all jujutsu ryū -ha today.

As the article references however, a fair bit of it involves grappling with blades (kogusoku) – and that certainly puts a different spin on things (a la Tanto-dori)!

In fact I will be training a lot of this next weekend at the K2 Leisure centre in Crawley... can't wait!

Gary

About Kogusoku...

Here are some photos of my instructor with his instructor taken during an embu a few weeks ago in Tokyo

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16279150@N07/14162865205/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/16279150@N07/14162955854/

Gary

and that certainly puts a different spin on things (a la Tanto-dori)!

Interesting kata comparison and conclusion Gary which perhaps would be true of a comparison with the Shindo Yoshin Ryu tradition also. I am assuming you mean Wado ryu tando dori here and if so, d'ye not think perhaps it is an apples and oranges thing ?

oneya

This is also an article that does an excellent job explaining jujutsu. Very concise. Some overlap with Kano's, but also good explanation of the use of jujutsu: http://www.koryu.com/library/mskoss8.html

oneya wrote:

and that certainly puts a different spin on things (a la Tanto-dori)!

Interesting kata comparison and conclusion Gary which perhaps would be true of a comparison with the Shindo Yoshin Ryu tradition also. I am assuming you mean Wado ryu tando dori here and if so, d'ye not think perhaps it is an apples and oranges thing ?

oneya

Yes, apples and oranges Reg.

I wasn't seeking to compare SSR with Wado (or SYR for that matter). They are very different.

My point was about the introduction of a weapon into practice.

Gary

Gary wrote:
Yes, apples and oranges Reg.

I wasn't seeking to compare SSR with Wado (or SYR for that matter). They are very different.

My point was about the introduction of a weapon into practice.

Gary

Just to clarify Gary: I meant comparing the wado apple with either SSR or SYR oranges rather than the pith, peel or segment variables of SSR with SYR, I don't have the knees necessary for either of those two koryu to really have an informed opinion.

On the gendai hand though, I'm not quite sure what you mean by your comment but the 'different spin' I see is: Wado ryu tanto kata raising a whole raft of ma, maai and other sabaki complexities that can broaden the awareness and ability of practitioners well beyond their shiai years and introduce a greater appreciation to their journey.?

oneya

claas wrote:I believe this article has been quite influential and could still be.

http://judoinfo.com/kano6.htm

Jujutsu and the origins of Judo
By Jigoro Kano and T. Lindsay, 1887
(Transactions of the Asiatic Society of Japan, Volume 15)


It tries to sum up the most important stuff about jujutsu history. It also goes into Yoshinryu and the Chinese influence too.

What do you think, how accurate is the content in light of more recent research and discussion? Is there anyone here (active) who has studied jujutsu history and could answer this question?



What is good about it, besides the content, is that it is quite short, informative and written in a way that is pleasant to read.

Hi Lasse,

You might also enjoy this by Syd Hoare, which seems to be a preamble to his book 'A History of Judo'.

http://www.sydhoare.com/HISTORICAL%20DE ... 20JUDO.pdf

Ben

Ben,

That was a good read, thanks for sharing.

About terminology... As a understand it, the various traditions often apply the terms to imply different things.

Koshi no Mawari for example is mentioned in the essay as meaning circling around the hip (as in wrestling around the hip) where as in SSR the inference is what you wear around your hip (ie weapons).

The full name for SSR is Sosuishi-Ryu koshi no mawari kumi-uchi.

The kumi-uchi is the jujutsu section - more specific to close quarter combat stuff, a lot of which contains fighting with blades or Kogusoku (although strictly speaking that term isn't used).

Gary