Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
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Gusei21
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Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by Gusei21 »

http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/hak ... /#more-603

Otsuka Sensei demonstrated kakete techniques in his kumite gata.
Thought Daito ryu's Hakaru Mori's opinion might interest you. Translated brilliantly by Chris Li.

There is so much going on under the surface that it is a lifetime's study to understand the sophistication of Otsuka Sensei's martial art.
Bob Nash
Gusei21
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Re: Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by Gusei21 »

Perhaps my post was too cryptic so let me spell it out. Or perhaps this topic is too boring? :)

Basically in the kata of jujitsu, aikido, and even our kihon kumite, we have an opponent who acts upon us.
In jujitsu, aikido there is usually some sort of grab. The defender then has to do something given the grab or punch or whatever. In Kihon kumite the attacker first punches. We then respond with a block and then we do what we do.
In either case this is a machite, ukete type of situation where some action happens and then we respond.
For the sake of this discussion I am removing the sen, sen no sen, go no sen stuff because that will add another layer of complexity that will make the discussion harder to follow.

So the guy attacks, grabs, whatever and you respond. That is the classical kata pattern.

Otsuka Sensei also had the other where he goes to initiate - kakete. Kakeru means to set a trap, to hook as in to hook a fish. In other words you are initiating some sort of offensive action. And this action on a physical level can be a punch, a sweep, some sort of physical contact. Hook a fish…hmm..the ultimate kuzushi…more on that later..

The cookbook template of a Wado attack is as follows: You close the gap, you strike or sweep to induce kuzushi, you close gap and enter their shikaku (weak area...not shikkaku..that means disqualify as in the kumite match). Once you are in their shikaku then you do some todomewaza (killing blow) like punch, stab, whatever. You might first immobilize them (in Japanese we say 'kill' korosu) because we need a brief moment to take out the tanto before we implant it in their belly.

Both Takagi Sensei and Suzuki Sensei are brilliant at this. They slide in, do some sort of strike or footsweep to induce kuzushi, then they slide in further to destroy. Standard Wado operating procedure.

Given the above, I was just focusing on the initial kakete, the initial contact point. Takagi's strike, Suzuki's footsweep. Both are brilliant because the strike is not just a strike. The footsweep is not just a footsweep. Both offensive actions must have the ability to induce kuzushi. Without kuzushi it becomes something else. Just simple kicking and punching.
The initial kuzushi stays true to its high level jujitsu art. It's about how to unbalance the opponent on contact. How to induce kuzushi on contact. This is extremely difficult and an advanced skill. The footsweep is not just a footsweep. The strike is not just a strike. They are both creating what some people would call 'fure aiki'. Fure means touch. They are creating aiki on contact. Fure aiki is a result of 3 simultaneous vectors being created and entering into the opponent's system at the same time. The human body cannot handle 3 or more simultaneous and independent vectors coming in at the same time.

In the article translated by Chris there is a mention that kakete is only taught to advanced Daito ryu practitioners. That is what caught my eye.

Why is it that Suzuki Sensei's foot sweep doesn't feel like most other people's footsweep and your structure crumbles? Why is it that when Takagi Sensei strikes your forward arm your whole structure crumbles?

It's not magic. It's kakete. Sophisticated kakete that relies on many factors including mental disruption, all the sen stuff, and/or some version of fure aiki.

Without that initial kakete our Wado would not be Wado. It would just be generic karate.
Just a plain strike or a plain footsweep might work but there is something beyond that which those gentlemen exhibited that makes Wado special. It is that kakete that ties directly back to our roots of highly sophisticated jujitsu.
Bob Nash
Tim49
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Re: Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by Tim49 »

I like what you say about vectors.
This rings true with things I've been shown. Add to that the manipulation of the reaction of the opponent and the deliberate limiting of his actions/reaction. (options closing down).

All good stuff.
Good article, very thought provoking.

Tim Shaw
Essex
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oneya
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Re: Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by oneya »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bksq4EP1JEw

5.18. - 5.36 - 8.06.

Suzuki sensei introduced the kakete concept as a 'feint' in his ohyo kumite but went on to caution "A feint is not just a feint."

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
Gusei21
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Re: Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by Gusei21 »

oneya wrote:
Suzuki sensei introduced the kakete concept as a 'feint' in his ohyo kumite but went on to caution "A feint is not just a feint."

oneya
A man of few words....then he destroys you with his body...
Bob Nash
Gusei21
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Re: Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by Gusei21 »

Let me take another crack at this kakete thing because I got a few emails from people and I think I was not clear.

Kakete in this context is very advanced.

It is not just a first strike.
It is not just a footsweep.

Yes, a strike can induce kuzushi. Yes a footsweep can induce kuzushi. But the kuzushi I am referring to is a ‘catastrophic whole body system paralysis – failure’ type of kuzushi.
There is a huge difference in the quality.

Why?
Simple to explain, tons of practice required to duplicate under the guidance of someone who knows.
Toby Threadgill does this and it is annoying. He walks up and touches you. As soon as you feel his touch all of a sudden you can’t lift your legs. You feel double weighted. Or you fall in a hole that just magically appeared in the ground and you collapse for no apparent reason. Highly irritating… By the way I am not confirming or denying that this is what Sensei Threadgill is doing. He has many different ways of doing things that have similar results.. On Monday it might be a spiral. On Tuesday he might just lock down your center. On Wednesday...

When Takagi Sensei comes flying into your space and connects to your forearm with his strike your structure just collapses. Then he just smiles and walks off..

In order to induce kuzushi on contact (fure aiki) 2 major things are required. (in my opinon).
1) You must be having the Heaven Earth Man thing going in your body meaning you must be thoroughly internally connected. Imagery: you got cables and pulleys running thru your body that connects your right fingers to your left toes and your left fingers to your right toes. Your spine is stretched up and down. Everything connects using your tanden as a focal point as if all the cables run thru the tanden. There is no slack in your body.

2) When you go strike you have to emit 3 or more simultaneous vectors in different directions (towards the direction of the object you are attacking.) So for the sake of this example you are doing what looks like an uchi uke strike. What is happening is that your forearm is rotating around the middle finger on an imaginary axis. Your elbow is projecting in one direction. Your fist is going in a third. Leave one variable out and it does not work. At the point of impact you have 3 independent vectors going into the opponent’s direction or into his extended structure. (Can anyone say – the first block in KK 8 or 9?).

When people try to imitate this it might not work most probably because number 1 is missing. A connected body is what transmits the force. No connected body (Heaven Earth Man), no force projection, no fure aiki on contact, therefore no structural implosion of your opponent.

Where else do we have fure aiki techniques? Jodan uke as a punch or block. Nagashi uke/ first block of KK1 2 3 4 5 6 7. The right arm of the second movement of kk1 on defense (but in this instance it is used to prevent any force from entering into your structure by forcing the force of his punch to get redirected into a tangential vector. 1+9 = 10 8+2 = 10 5 +5 = 10 stuff.) The left punch of the second movement of kk1. The list goes on and on. Emitting 3 simultaneous vectors at the point of contact.
Bob Nash
oneya
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Re: Very interesting article by Chris Li on Kakete

Post by oneya »

Yes.! There is 'only practice' because it is organic. It is not possible to Google wado ryu and get the definitive answer. :-) but you can be ukemi to Takagi or Suzuki sensei and come away each time with a more profound understanding.

The layered notion of wado ryu, in terms of its principles and concepts like maai/irimi or machite/kakete or kihon kumite/kumite gata, should always be thought of as 'organic' which the OED describes one aspect as leading to: " The organic unity of the integral work of art, characterized by gradual or natural development."

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
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