The Paradox.

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
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oneya
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The Paradox.

Post by oneya »

Lifted to this new thread from the "Can Kata from other systems be Wadoized?" thread where Bob Nash noted:
Powerful men have always wanted to rule, to control. And they used military might. Obviously Japan is not unique in this reqard. But the ethos, the psychology, the rationale, in that there are many things uniquely Japanese and the best of that became a central part of Budo. Budo in its ideal form eschew violence. Yet it is all about violence. It is this wonderful paradox that drives the Gaijin nuts.
prompts me to ask: If budo is understood as being historically and uniquely Japanese, is it probable the gaijin will never comprehend this paradox and so can never practice budo in reality.?

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
Gusei21
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by Gusei21 »

You understand it. :)
I guess that is not very helpful in moving this thread forward, eh?
Most gaijin will find this a paradox and some will never get past the initial barrier it presents.
Others will resolve it thru their daily training provided they have a good teacher.

Now if you want to talk about this paradox and how to resolve it....I'll leave that to the others for the moment.
Too busy debugging code. I hate SAP...

But great question though.
Bob Nash
Tim49
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by Tim49 »

I suspect that the only way to begin to get any kind of understanding is not just to take a deeper look at Japanese culture but to also examine our own culture. It’s a complex one because it’s all wrapped up in traditions that have taken thousands of years to evolve, and largely the two cultures in question are historically unaffected by each other because of them happening on opposite sides of the planet (until recently that is).

There are a series of essays published re. Budo and the West (can’t remember but I think they were published through Kendo World as volume 1, but there was never a volume 2, sadly). In one of these essays a Japanese Kendo Sensei who moved to Germany does a neat analysis of Western teaching/learning methods v traditional Japanese Arts learning methods, for me it underlined the cultural differences. The Western need to break everything down contrasted against a more holistic Japanese approach; the insistence on analysis and it’s origins in Platonic thought (established through thousands of years in the West) versus the Japanese ‘no questions asked’ approach.

Another nice little book originating from a series of essays written by a Japanese Kyudo Sensei (Matsui) who moved to the Netherlands and struggled to deal with Westerners curiosity about Budo, he put his thoughts together very well, explaining to an inquisitive Western audience. Pity it is not generally available.

But this is all a long way from the faux-Japanese trimmings that we sometimes see with people who are genuine enthusiasts about their physical discipline but find it too much of a challenge to dig deeper. Dave Lowry’s writings are a good starting point.

Tim Shaw
Essex UK
tkaneshige
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by tkaneshige »

Whoa, didn't anybody see The Last Samurai? That Tom Cruise guy caught on pretty quick and saved the natives from themselves.
oneya
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by oneya »

Tim49 wrote:I suspect that the only way to begin to get any kind of understanding is not just to take a deeper look at Japanese culture but to also examine our own culture. It’s a complex one because it’s all wrapped up in traditions that have taken thousands of years to evolve, and largely the two cultures in question are historically unaffected by each other because of them happening on opposite sides of the planet (until recently that is).
Tim Shaw
Hi Tim,

Just to clarify: when you say "our own culture." do you mean Occident as opposed to Orient or maybe East v West or something more specific because we have a pretty varied mix responding to this thread at the moment.

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
Tim49
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by Tim49 »

Yes, you are right Reg. Must be careful to use the right terms in future.

Tim Shaw
Essex UK
oneya
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by oneya »

Sorry Tim, I was trying to grasp your meaning of studying the two cultures rather than being finicky. You could well be right but the two cultures with "traditions that have taken thousands of years to evolve" didn't match up with this little hamlet's history down-under where I live.

I've always suspected the idea of 'budo' in its historical Japanese sense as perhaps being a bridge too far for the gaijin. This may well be me and my antipathy towards the trappings of culture often obscuring the dimwit reality in many cases. As far as culture goes I am all for the simplicity of a bare dojo and its traditions as an aid to clarity in practice but there should also be a guiding thread of common sense necessary when mantra laden ego meets vulnerability or bravado and culture get confused.

There is no doubt too that today's wado ryu scene is a far cry from the 1960s parcel launched in the UK and Europe back then and with all that "traditional" wado ryu on sale today I just wondered if a little fresh air blowing a few cobwebs from the notion of a 'budo ethic' might be worthwhile.

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
Tim49
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by Tim49 »

Hi Reg,
Your comment about the bare Zenic Dojo made me very much think of an experience from last summer, when I had the opportunity to meet up with my old Sensei David Allsop in his Dojo in Mansfield Notts. Lovely to meet David again after all these years and to train in the Dojo I originally started my training in Wado. But what struck me most was the Dojo itself.

I know someone is going to contradict me but I believe that the Mansfield Dojo is the oldest Wado Dojo in the UK. A building that was converted solely for this purpose in the 1960s. I remember years ago David said that it was the second oldest; there being one in Bristol which might be older, but I’m not sure if that is the case any more.

Anyway, back to my point. The Dojo has not changed at all in all the years I’ve known it, but, key to my point, there are almost no trapping or trimmings of Japanese or occidental origins. Neither is it glitzy chromium and air conditioned like you find in the big chain gymnasiums. The whole building looks (and smells) utilitarian; its whole reason for existence is for training. The floor on the upper storey looks like polished boards but the wood has only been polished by natural wear and tear, by hundreds of feet and it’s stained a honey colour by sweat and no doubt blood. David said that the floor was originally painted black, but not a trace of the black paint remains.

This whole edifice is probably a reflection of David himself, as I know he has poured heart and soul into this building. But I can’t help thinking that there is also a mixture of Northern no-nonsense pragmatism (this is in the middle of an ex-mining community) and also perhaps something of the pared down Budo that comes to us through Wado; though this may be in a non-self-conscious way, in that it is not deliberate, there is no artifice.

Tim Shaw
Essex UK
oneya
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Re: The Paradox.

Post by oneya »

I think our original Wado kai (kyu do kan) dojo at the Dockland Settlement was the oldest dojo (late 1964) in Bristol at one time Tim but it may well be Dave's Mansfield WIKF dojo has the honour now.

Bob Flowers has since converted an old church for his Sei Shin Kan Academy dojo and George Grimes works from his Bristol Wado Ryu dojo at Yate, both Bobby and George Grimes are also Kyu Do Kan OBs.

All of these stalwarts have in excess of 45 years honing their wado ryu with tenacity and single mindedness and while it may not be strictly 'Budo' as she is written in Kanji it would take a keen Japanese eye to see where one stops and the other begins.

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
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