Kihon Kumite 3

[andyb28]

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I am curious and couldn't find anything on the search.

For reference I have found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baNukC0NNCw although I am pretty sure you all know what Kihon Kumite No 3 looks like.

We were working on Kihons at the club on Monday, which for those of you that know a bit about me will know our club does not practice these as much as other clubs, so my experience consists of an introduction to them at Tims club and a couple of sessions on them in my own club, so please excuse my lack of knowledge on them.

When I was the attacker, it seemed as if my right hand is recoiled and not shut down at any point, I could easily have punched to the head, or worse elbowed, more so elbowed because the head is brought in close to me. However, with Ippons, which we do more of, I cant say I have noticed something left quite so open as this.

It seemed more logical to me that rather than both arms focusing on the front kick, the left arm/hand would be better to shut that punch down in some way.

Please can someone explain.

Thanks
Andy

[wadoka]

Andy

If I can correct one thing first this then leads to the second point.

I think you should be saying that you were practising the Kihon Kumite rather than the "kihons". So, this approach to Kumite is the Kihon form is one way of looking at things.

My take on it is that you are not practicing a free fighting combination. That first defence is not a block, the real purpose is to attack.

That second movement is about irimi, how to enter your opponents space.

Also, as the attacker you have chosen to execute maegeri within the correct distance and the response should happen simultaneously.

[Tim49]

At a basic level:
As attacker your intention is to kick; you take opportunity as you see it. If you have time to think about punching Torimi has already screwed up, the practice become null and void, may as well do something else.

This is not about static position; it’s largely about timing and initiative. Far too simplistic I know, but you have to start somewhere.

Is this thread in the right place?

Tim Shaw
Essex
UK

[wadoka]

I can move it once it gets going.

[andyb28]

Where should I have posted it?

[oneya]

Hi Andy,

Your question still suggests that you are missing the point of Kihon kumite. The first thing you need to realise is that the ten kihon kumite are wado ryu kata in its omote form. So when we practice kihon kumite in omote form there is no allowance for any diversionary 'if and or but" there is only the form and how to practice until you internalise the motion and movement, plus its intent and understanding of its purpose.

Kihon Kumite # 3 is part of ten such engagements that will lay the fundamental body mechanics for building one's own wado ryu and until you have this you are not yet practicing wado ryu. Once you do have this ability it is possible to move on to ura and henka waza of kihon kumite.

Wadopedia is probably a better place for this type of post Andy.

oneya

[Gary]

Hi Andy,

Kihon Kumite is paired kata.

As Tim has alluded to, both sides (Ukemi and Torimi) have a role to play - so that the students practicing the kata, get the most out of it!

This way, as well as internalising things like distance and timing, students get to realise (arguably) the more important aspect of kumite – i.e. the stratagems of fighting!

If you have done your fair bit of competition fighting, you probably do a lot of this already without even knowing it; however (imo) kihon kumite remains an excellent and endless resource - well beyond the shiaijo!

Gary

[Gary]

Sorry Reg,

I took too long to write my reply!

edit -[damn autocorrect on these little things!!]

[oneya]

No problems Gary.

oneya

[andyb28]

I think Gary has touched on something quite important to me personally, I do believe I have learned how to fight through years of tough jiyu kumite and competition.

What I find very interesting is that over a period of time your brain, body and karate adapts. Someone you pair up with regularly may well throw something new into the mix, it catches you out, perhaps they will get you with it a few times. I often find myself driving home after karate, thinking about what I got caught with, why and what could be done to better defend against it. But I don't think its just me that goes through this process, most of the blackbelts seem to, even perhaps without noticing.

I will give a couple of examples.

I am quite good at a competition style reverse punch, its long and covers a good distance. I would often catch people with it. However its now quite rare that I will be able to attack with it as people have learnt and adapted. They see it coming, draw up into cat stance and will hit me on the head with a backfist or similar. You could possibly notice this move in a few kata, perhaps this knowledge came to them even without them knowing.

I would often be caught by a spinning back kick from one partner, my mistake was moving away from it. On the drive home I realised that I needed to move forward not backwards. Again, my karate has adapted.

I think this is really cool, I'm sure this is all stuff you realised a long time ago, but its only really starting to hit home to me now.