Internal Power

[Tim49]

There is a reason some of us are taught to end each class doing gyakuzuki in tate seishan as opposed to the regular gyakuzuki stance. Both Takagi Sensei and Arakawa Sensei have figured it out and that is why in their classes they have the students do gyakuzuki up and down the floor in tate seishan. I haven't come across any other Wado instructor in Japan that gets that. Tate seishan is profound if seen from an internal viewpoint.

Ha, thank goodness!
Yes, been doing this with Sugasawa Sensei off and on for some time now.
Pleased to hear that other people do this as well.

Tim Shaw
Essex
UK

[oneya]

It is a natural part of the evolutionary process Tim, otherwise kihon, Naihanchi, Seishan and kihon kumite process counts for nought.

oneya

[Simao Mate]

Food for thought. In Wado we are not allowed to turn our hips in naihanchi. We can turn our waist but we try to keep our hips level and forward.
In Seishan the first half we are not allowed to move our trunk. We have to maintain mami as our feet move below us and our arms move to block and punch.
We want vertical power flow. Not horizontal. (therefore our knees have to remain over our toes and cannot move from side to side).
The stances of Naihanchi, yoko seishan, tate seishan are all corkscrew like actions starting in the head of the femur in order to generate what the internal martial artists call spiraling energy - dual opposing spirals in the body being released thru your arms which are also corkscrewing from the head of your humerus.
Wado kata movement is not an accident. Within the context of Naihanchi, Seishan and even Chinto , everything fits the internal model. Tate seishan is intentional. We don't stand in hangetsu dachi or even sanchin dachi. Tate seishan is extremely sophisticated. That's the book I want to be able to write someday. There is a reason some of us are taught to end each class doing gyakuzuki in tate seishan as opposed to the regular gyakuzuki stance. Both Takagi Sensei and Arakawa Sensei have figured it out and that is why in their classes they have the students do gyakuzuki up and down the floor in tate seishan. I haven't come across any other Wado instructor in Japan that gets that. Tate seishan is profound if seen from an internal viewpoint. Everyone else just mimicks it. And more importantly if your kihon sucks then everything fails. All the theory in the world will not help you if your body is not conditioned properly through correct kihon, whole body connection and cross body awareness.

That’s very interesting post Bob.Maybe that’s the reason why Suzuki Sensei insist (and I mean oh boy insist)to gyaku zuki in tate seishan and general in tate seishan and how important is!
On the other hand the Chinese way of internal power has some rules.If you just copy the movement without the knowledge,if you don’t include together with the movement the correct type of breathing with the right way of visual the energy (and other stuff like that)then you don’t ''wake up the power'' .
That is what they call empty shell training.

[Gusei21]

That’s very interesting post Bob.Maybe that’s the reason why Suzuki Sensei insist (and I mean oh boy insist)to gyaku zuki in tate seishan and general in tate seishan and how important is!
On the other hand the Chinese way of internal power has some rules.If you just copy the movement without the knowledge,if you don’t include together with the movement the correct type of breathing with the right way of visual the energy (and other stuff like that)then you don’t ''wake up the power'' .
That is what they call empty shell training.

So Simao, can you actually wake up the power? And if so how do you do this? What is this Chinese way? What are the rules? Do you think the Japanese ever figured it out? Do you think Suzuki Sensei was able to do it? Or do you think the Japanese only stayed at the empty shell level of training? I am not accusing you of saying that. I am just wondering.
I am actually curious to hear your explanation. How far along are you in this type of training?

[Simao Mate]

So Simao, can you actually wake up the power? And if so how do you do this? What is this Chinese way? What are the rules?

Well with Nei Kung I guess.

Do you think the Japanese ever figured it out?
Or do you think the Japanese only stayed at the empty shell level of training?

Despite what the majority of Chinese neijia teachers believe you can find a lot of internal exercises in some Koryu.Araki Ryu,Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu etc.

? Do you think Suzuki Sensei was able to do it?

Honestly I don’t know.I never saw anything let’s say ''bizarre'' in him.I know that he met Wang Peisheng and they had a respect each other.Wang Peisheng spoke very highly for him and this is not a very common thing especially between a Chinese master of internal martial arts and a Japanese Sensei as you know.For example don’t forget what Wang Shu Jin thought about karate and Japanese martial arts in general.
Anyway, I don’t know.

How far along are you in this type of training?

Million miles away from anything like that.

[Gusei21]

Hi,

I just threw this together just now because there was a lull in my crazy work schedule.
I meant to write about tate seishan but I never got there.
I will edit this at a later date. I am going to throw it in my future to do enhancement pile.
But in the meantime this might help a few of you and might get a few more to start thinking in a different manner.
This is a work in progress so I fully reserve the right to change stuff around.

Tate seishan (part 1?)

Tate = vertical
Seishan = name of a kata
Tate seishan is a stance that first appears in the kata Seishan or in kihon kumite.
Tate seishan is an ohyo of the naihanchi stance.
There are actually 2 ohyos of naihanchi stance. Tate seishan and Yoko (side) seishan.
Unless the naihanchi stance is understood tate seishan will never make sense.
In Wado when we play in the internal playground the training wheels come on when we start exploring the naihanchi dachi (stance). Naihanchi dachi has its limits in terms of forward mobility therefore tate seishan was created to enhance forward (vertical) mobility. Tate seishan is unique to Wado (no other karate styles use this stance) because Wado is unique compared to other karate styles in that our foundation is derived from Yoshin Ryu jujitsu as opposed to Okinawan karate.
Getting back to Naihanchi there are a few fast rules.
1) Always keep your knees over your toes. Do not allow the knees to move in a horizontal direction.
2) Never bring your upper arch (lower groin area) together. Do not allow it to fold inward. Always maintain an arch. Visualize that you are sitting on a skinny malnourished horse.
3) Twist the waist when you turn and not your hips. (Hips being the pelvis region and your waist being the area from about your belly button up.)
4) Keep weight on each foot about and inch or so forward of the shin – do not be weighted on your heels or the balls of your feet.

These rules are there because if they are broken then when you are ready to generate power it will fail if these rules are not followed. The naihanchi stance has its roots in Chinese martial arts. It is used to isolate internal power in a way that is manageable for learning.
If you violate rule number one then when you issue power some of it will spill out horizontally. You want to issue the power up vertically – up from your legs thru your hips thru your waist/back thru your arms and out your hands. If you have horizontal movement at the knee then it will fail.
If you violate rule number two then you will not be able to transfer power from your legs to your upper body. Power is transmitted via our cross body fascial chain that runs from our left leg to our right arm and from our right leg to our leg arm. If your arch crumbles then the cross body transmission will not be as effective.
If you violate rule number three it is similar to the violation of rule number two.

The other important thing about naihanchi is that you have to become friends with the head of your femur and be able to feel how it sits in your hip socket. The power is initiated by the rotation of the head of the femur or to be more specific by the tissues surrounding the head of the femur which enables the head of the femur to rotate. This initial movement comes from the tanden. The tanden is not an amorphous entity. True lower abdominal tanden has mass, it has density. It is developed over time until you can actually control it so it can kick like a baby inside a pregnant woman’s uterus. Tanden development exercises are beyond the scope of this article. In fact in many arts it is considered a secret since many consider it to be the source of power. For many of us who have a connected body everything in our body is connected via the tanden. Our upper body including our limbs are directly connected to the tanden. Our lower body including our limbs are connected to the tanden. Everything is connected via the tanden. Everything (tissues, tendons, muscles, fascial tissue) pulls away from the tanden. The pull causes a taut bungee cord like feeling. Therefore when the tanden moves, everything moves. That is one of the secrets to our speed. We move as one. We are a connected body, connected from our left pinkie finger to our right pinkie toe, from our right pinkie finger to our left pinkie toe. (Note: This is what we are practicing when we do Naihanchi and Seishan).

So back to our femur action. The tanden is like a ball inside your middle. The ball rotates. (not literally but partially). The ball can rotate or spin sideways or up/down. In the case of the naihanchi kata the tanden spins sideways which causes the tissues around the femur to move which causes the femur head to rotate. In a fully connected body this in turn sends force from the tanden to the ground and back up the leg, thru the pelvis, thru the waist/back, thru the arm. People talk about getting energy from the ground. The only thing that gets energy from the ground is a plant. We don’t get energy from the ground. We throw energy to the ground first and that energy then bounces back up from the ground. The earth is Ying. It is passive. We throw stuff at it and it bounces back to us like a surface of a drum.
But I digress.

So throwing the energy down from the tanden/femur action (which moves first, the tanden or the femur head (kua)? The answer is YES).

As I write this I am realizing that what I write will not help anyone who has not been trained and conditioned properly. These are notes that will only help people who have been exposed to this stuff.
Oh well. You know who you are. I hope it helps you.

The sole purpose of the naihanchi kata is learning how to develop the body in such a way to manifest power in this manner. Each movement in naihanchi is an exercise in working the body to generate internal power. Wado people who look to bunkai this kata are missing the movie. Empi the opponent? Seriously? Fighting against a wall? Fighting on a boat? Let the others stay with that explanation. Those are the uneducated who will never understand anything. The rest of us will endeavor to create a more powerful version of ourselves.

I intended on writing about tate seishan. Hmm. Naihanchi is the inevitable first stop.

To be continued.

[Gusei21]

Just reread what I wrote.
The problem with what I wrote is that it makes no sense unless you have or know about having a connected body.
No connected body, everything fails.
What does it mean to be connected?
That means you are in such a state that if someone touches your forearm they do not feel your forearm.
They touch your forearm and they are actually touching your tanden/ground/opposite foot or all of the above (take your pick -depends on how you are connected by choice).
Having a connected body is important for sword work, for jujitsu, for Wado. Toby Threadgill's teacher, Takamura Sensei called this the Budo Body.

How do you create a connected body? You have to do specific exercises.
I can't describe them here. But what the exercises do is very specific. They condition the body by elongating, stretching, strengthening the fascial tissues, the tendons, muscles.
For reference go google Thomas Myers - Anatomy trains. Our bodies are prewired with fascial connections. Activating them gives you access to power.

The Chinese figured this out long ago. The Japanese took it. How to activate, how to train, how to utilize our fascial train is the stuff that makes up much of the internal martial arts world.

It's more complicated than this but it is a good starting point.

I tell people that if you want this stuff (internal power) then you first have to understand structural integrity (correct skeletal alignment) and develop a connected body.
Can you lift that beer bottle in your right hand by being connected to your left foot? How do you think Kuroda is beating people arm wrestling on the floor?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXsMSoXrNgo (4:32). He is using his cross body connection. His right pinkie is wound thru his left foot. Cross body connection - thus incorporating his whole body. He is pinkie wrestling with NOT his pinkie. He is pinkie wrestling with his BODY. In Wado we punch with our body. We block with our body. Hmm...heard that one a billion times....

[AG1]

quote="Gusei21"]Hi,

Tate seishan is unique to Wado (no other karate styles use this stance) because Wado is unique

Agree that Wado is unique, but not sure about Tate seishan...I've read two of Choki Motobu's books and there are pics of him that very much look like TS...[/quote]

[Gusei21]

quote="Gusei21"]Hi,

Tate seishan is unique to Wado (no other karate styles use this stance) because Wado is unique

Agree that Wado is unique, but not sure about Tate seishan...I've read two of Choki Motobu's books and there are pics of him that very much look like TS...

[/quote]

Arturo,

Tate seishan as a formal stance is unique to Wado. Otsuka Sensei learned naihanchi from Choki Motobu.
Tate seishan as an ohyo of naihanchi dachi was used by Motobu. But Motobu never named it as such. And my guess is that Motobu taught Otsuka how to use that kata and a way of studying fighting methodology. Plus my guess is that with Otsuka knowing Shindo Yoshin Ryu's nairiki kata he was able to see naihanchi for what it truly was - a kata for internal power development. What I don't know is whether Motobu fully understood naihanchi in its internal context like Otsuka Sensei.
If Motobu used the ohyo of naihanchi (tate seishan) like Otsuka did then it does not show in what is left of Motobu's art as passed down thru his son.
And as I look thru Motobu's book I don't see a specific reference to tate seishan.

I think the bigger question or fascination is how the ohyo of naihanchi - as in tate seishan - is used by Otsuka. This usage is unique to Wado. It is more like tai chi with its dual opposing spirals.

If you look at tate seishan as 'feet diagonal, toe heel relationship, hips square and leave it at that then you will miss everything.
In the context of gyakuzuki, the back foot feeds the hikite as it corkscrews down and the front foot feeds the punching hand as the leg corkscrews sending energy out from the feet to the punching fist. Both femurs rotate and the energy crosses the back in two places, lower back and upper back as it goes cross body and it crosses in the front in one place. The force that is potentially projected from this configuration is extremely profound especially if the prerequities of ten chi ji are established which generates dynamic stability. Of course everything must be initiated by the tanden inner rotation in the connected body.

[Gusei21]

(This is not the tate seishan post that I am planning to continue as soon as I get some time.
This is a response to Arturo because I need to explain to people that there is more to tate seishan than meets the eye.
I am not sure if my following explanation will be successful but I will give it a try. I just want people to appreciate our amazing art for what it is.)

Once again what I wrote makes no sense out of context. Let me give this another try. I will give specific directions using body movement from the kata Seishan to illustrate one usage of tate seishan.

It’s a move in the kata Seishan that makes me shake my head in disbelief every time I see Takagi Sensei do it. In reality he hardly ever shows it. But once in a rare while he will do it and every time I see it I feel like giving up karate because I know I will never be able to replicate that power and speed.

(disclaimer – actually I have two. 1) I have no clue whether Motobu had IP (internal power) or not. I can’t tell by the photos but my educated guess is that he had IP. Looking at his son I see nothing. But then again most sons of great masters rarely have it. This is not just a karate thing. I see the same in other martial arts. Perhaps we unfairly expect too much. 2) unless your body is conditioned and connected these directions might not have any effect. But if you have a bit of both then your power and speed should go thru your roof.)

It’s the bit in seishan after the YOKOGERI followed by junzuki no tsukkomi gedan. The bit where the junzuki no tsukkomi transitions to tate seishan gyakuzuki. That one move – I have been chasing that one move for years and have only come to terms with it in the past few years. And I think I am only starting to fully understand what Takagi Sensei is doing only now. The yardstick for me is whether I can do it approaching his speed and power and I think I am getting there. I might never get there but the process of getting there is the fun and challenge. (I put yokogeri in caps for a reason. For some unknown reason people are changing Otsuka Sensei’s yokogeri into maegeri. Drives me crazy when I see this. These folks are blowing the kata. All your internal power is harder to maintain if you go maegeri. But hey, do what you want. The old man knew exactly what he was doing in my opinion. )

So set up.
You got to junzuki no tsukkomi because you initated the punch by rotating your tanden to your right.
This rotation opened the front "Kua" or "Inguinal Fold" of the left front leg. The head of the left femur slightly rotates counterclockwise which means your upper thigh goes counter clockwise while the section below the knee (shin) goes in the other direction sort of because the front foot is anchored to the ground and not moving. This motion is a downward force. The left leg is connected to the right hand which is in hikite position. It got to hikite because it was pulled by the downward force of the corkscrewing front leg. Left pinkie toe connected to the right pinkie hand right?
The right femur rotates (you can decide which way to rotate it since my way is counter intuitive) and sends energy up your leg and out your punching fist. This energy going up one leg out your punching hand and the energy going down from the hikite into the front foot, they both spiral around your torso.
Connected body, if one thing moves, everything moves. Tanden rotates to the right, wham…you nail the junzuki no tsukkomi gedan. Looking good.

Now for the cooler part. The transition from junzuki no tsukkomi to tate seishan gyakuzuki.

Tanden rotates left. Connected body. One thing moves, everything moves. Both femurs rotate counterclockwise. Both legs corkscrew as a result of the femur head rotation initiated by the tanden.
The front leg sends energy up and fires out the punching hand as it spirals up thru the torso. That is why the stance changes from tsukkomi to tate seishan – it shortens and widens. The back leg corkscrews as a result of the head of the femur rotating in the right leg. This is a downward blast as your left arm snaps back into hikite position as a result of the downward spiral. Left pinkie connected to the right pinkie toe.
Most people fail because they limit themselves to only the push pulling of their arms. They connect only their left hand to their right hand via their arms and back and totally neglect the left hand right leg, right hand left leg connection and know nothing of the downward and upward spiral.

And by the way, the front leg does not bounce off the floor as energy shoots upwards. We aren’t getting energy from the ground. We are not house plants. What we have is a connected body that is pulling from tanden to the ground. That preestablished downwardness is there before the tanden initiation and that is why there is up energy.

All that in just the apparently simple transition from junzuki no tsukkomi to tate seishan gyakuzuki.

Is there more? Of course. But this is enough to give you a working model of the genius behind this movement. Do I understand it all? Nope. Still learning. Still refining. All I know is what is changing in me. I am faster. I am punching with more power. I am getting closer to my teacher. Will I ever get there? I don’t think so. He is not human. But I am closer than I have ever been before so it makes me happy. And I see that the more my body becomes conditioned the faster and more powerful I get.
What is cool about naihanchi and seishan is that you can mine these kata forever and keep working it as it will continue to unfold its many treasures to last you a lifetime of study. I can obsess about one movement. One. Do it again and again for hours. Each move is truly genius. I bow to the people who created these kata. I wouldn't know how to create one movement of one kata if I tried but we are given a whole kata to use as our playground.