Internal Power

[JuhaR]

the bit in seishan after the YOKOGERI

Yokogeri like e.g. in Pinan katas? The leg actually opens sideways?

In the context of gyakuzuki, the back foot feeds the hikite as it corkscrews down and the front foot feeds the punching hand as the leg corkscrews sending energy out from the feet to the punching fist. Both femurs rotate and the energy crosses the back in two places, lower back and upper back as it goes cross body and it crosses in the front in one place. The force that is potentially projected from this configuration is extremely profound especially if the prerequities of ten chi ji are established which generates dynamic stability. Of course everything must be initiated by the tanden inner rotation in the connected body.

So, do I understand this correctly: One should be able do it even on a slippery surface? Standing in the shower for instance? As the power lines crosses the body, and everything is initiated by tanden, the forces actually balance each other so that even if one would be moving forwards, one would nevertheless not slip, and fall down or pull a muscle.

Is the same idea behind e.g. the second part of Kihon kumite one? Spiralling down and to the right, the power of the whole movement concentrating on the urazuki? The "block" also getting energy from the slight downward movement and spiralling?

[Gusei21]

the bit in seishan after the YOKOGERI

Yokogeri like e.g. in Pinan katas? The leg actually opens sideways?

If you are doing Wado then yes.

[Gusei21]

So, do I understand this correctly: One should be able do it even on a slippery surface? Standing in the shower for instance? As the power lines crosses the body, and everything is initiated by tanden, the forces actually balance each other so that even if one would be moving forwards, one would nevertheless not slip, and fall down or pull a muscle.

Is the same idea behind e.g. the second part of Kihon kumite one? Spiralling down and to the right, the power of the whole movement concentrating on the urazuki? The "block" also getting energy from the slight downward movement and spiralling?

Can you do anything on a slippery floor?

kihon kumite - yes. In fact spirals are everywhere. Not just in kihon kumite

[JuhaR]

Can you do anything on a slippery floor?

You would be surprised to learn what people can do on slippery floors... Like the old saying goes, if your soap falls on the floor, DON't pick it up! ;)

Actually I was trying to use a metaphor to ask you if this is the "feeling" one should aim towards. If you try to execute a Shotokan or Shukokai version of what they call gyakuzuki on a wet floor, you would end up on your back knee with a pulled muscle. A powerful push against a floor with no friction leads to a big "Ouch!"

However, if I intrepret what you are saying correctly, a wado gyakuzuki is more centered. Everything in wado is more centered. So much so, that powerful movement is possible even on a slippery surface. The floor is there, it is still slippery as a Finnish winter road, but you don't push against it with all your might when initiating the movement, nor do you haphazardly step out so far that you loose your center, and the control of your limbs. The body moves, the limbs assist.

Perhaps I am completely at a loss here?

[oneya]

You would be surprised to learn what people can do on slippery floors... Like the old saying goes, if your soap falls on the floor, DON't pick it up! ;)

I think that might be an aphorism from the San Quentin dojo. :-(

If you try to execute a Shotokan or Shukokai version of what they call gyakuzuki on a wet floor, you would end up on your back knee with a pulled muscle. A powerful push against a floor with no friction leads to a big "Ouch!"

If we equate or compare Shukokai or Shotokan with wado ryu JuhaR we are already in shoal waters because of our different lineage and cultural raison d'etre. In some instances we are not in danger if we consider aikido - or perhaps aikijitsu - as distant cousins and certainly the Chinese systems of energy and power development would be a salient consideration, both internal and external.

As for driving conditions on a 'Finnish winter road' you might be better off driving a 4x4 or at the very least an early Issigonis's Mini if you want keep the faith.

oneya

[JuhaR]

If we equate or compare Shukokai or Shotokan with wado ryu JuhaR we are already in shoal waters because of our different lineage and cultural raison d'etre. In some instances we are not in danger if we consider aikido - or perhaps aikijitsu - as distant cousins and certainly the Chinese systems of energy and power development would be a salient consideration, both internal and external.

Yep, I understand, and appreciate this. What I am trying to do, is to get a mental image of the "motor" of wado, and of some physical manifestations of it's use. Do I get it right: Eventhough gyakuzukis performed by a wado stylist and a Shukokai stylist look similar, they are very different. On the surface, the Shukokai version seems more powerful, more committed with the deep stance, and pronounced hip twist. And these guys do hit quite hard... However, take away the optimal conditions, and the technique falls apart. Slippery floor, short distance, moving sideways etc. robs the foundation. Wado, on the other hand, utilizes more "core strength".

[Gusei21]

Yep, I understand, and appreciate this. What I am trying to do, is to get a mental image of the "motor" of wado, and of some physical manifestations of it's use. Do I get it right: Eventhough gyakuzukis performed by a wado stylist and a Shukokai stylist look similar, they are very different. On the surface, the Shukokai version seems more powerful, more committed with the deep stance, and pronounced hip twist. And these guys do hit quite hard... However, take away the optimal conditions, and the technique falls apart. Slippery floor, short distance, moving sideways etc. robs the foundation. Wado, on the other hand, utilizes more "core strength".

I don't feel comfortable with that comparison.
I would put it a different way.
I would say that if you want to do Wado the way a few people do/did it, a way that is influenced by the higher level teachings of everything that koryu jujitsu had to offer, that was in higher level kenjitsu, the stuff influenced by Chinese martial arts, the stuff that differentiated Uyeshiba, Takeda, Shioda, Otsuka, Takagi and the like from the martial art masses then you would do it in the fashion that I described. Most people don't do it this way. Most people's engine are wired differently. We jokingly call the other people 'straights'. Most of the martial art public is straight. And that is fine.
What separates these men from the straights are certain things that are acquired thru having a conditioned body (budo body) meaning heaven earth man, six directions for dynamic stability and spiraling for power. One of the common characteristics of doing this stuff is that you end up remaining always in the center of YOU. You operate from yourself. You never try to do stuff to others. You do stuff to yourself first. Trying to do stuff to others is simple jujitsu. Doing stuff to yourself and then projecting that out is internal power, aiki, neija, whatever you want to call it, however you want to define it because you can get heavily into anaylzing this stuff (for example some differentiate internal power from internal strength from aiki from ...how deep do you want to go? You still have to be able to still do it at the end of the day.)

So for most of the Wado public just connecting the arms are enough. Just focusing on how to use the hips, correct stance, correct structure, how to hold the fist, how to punch and kick properly. Those things are more important. Because without this strong foundation (kihon) the other stuff will never work.

In my personal opinion I think Kimura Sensei's Shukokai is terrific. It is strong, it can be fast. But for me it has an upper limit that comes on fast. This other model has an upper limit too, everything has an upper limit, but I think this model has a higher upper limit and I see that it translates to a lot of general body movement.

I heard a story about Uyeshiba at the Kodokan. He was already pretty old at the time. He was throwing the judokas around left and right. But there was this one guy who was a judo champion. An Olympian I believe. I need to find his name...but anyway, the judo champ came in fast and hard to throw Uyeshiba. Uyeshiba knew he could not move fast enough to do his magic. He also did not want to get thrown because he was old and didn't want to deal with getting tossed. So instead of doing his usual stuff he just turned it on and then stuck his hand out towards the judoka's incoming hip. The hip just broke. Uyeshiba turned himself into something like a brick wall. He did it to himself. He did nothing to the judoka. He just amped up the aiki in him. The judoka slamming into Uyeshiba thus creating aiki between the two. The aiki between the two was a result of the judoka's own actions. The net result was that he broke himself. Uyeshiba just stayed in the center of himself. When aikido people talk about aikido being a non violent martial art I think this is what they are talking about without truly understanding what Uyeshiba was really doing. I am one with the universe. If you attack me then you are violating some law of the universe so you will be destroyed while I just stand there contemplating my navel. Therefore I am non violent...or something like that. Good luck with that...As always I digress...not here tp make fun of aikido. We have more than enough stuff to make fun of karate.

[Gusei21]

Ghosting and why if you do not yokogeri your Seishan kata will suck.
(reposting this in the wadopedia kata seishan section).

Seishan. You just did a fake maegeri with your left leg as you did a sukui uchi up their face.
You then relaxed your mind and body and let the arm go. You then sense that all is not well directly behind you so you turn in that direction as you land in shiko dachi and perform an ura uchi down the front of the opponent’s face crushing it with your body weight and a bit of tanden force thrown in to boot.

This is the setup.
So here you are just hanging out in shiko dachi minding your own business when all of a sudden someone grabs your hand that just so happens to be shaped in ura uchi.

So Houston, we have a problem. Not only has he grabbed my hand but because he sort of knows what he is doing he now has control over me. Not only does he have me, but he really has me. What do I mean by that? You can grab someone and not have access to their center or you can grab them and get access to their center. What is the easiest way to grab someone and get access to their center? Simple. You grab then pull. What is happening in this particular scenario? Not only is he grabbing me, he starts to pull on me.

This is a critical element in this kata. Kata always has a set of assumptions. If any of the assumptions change then the kata can change. The assumption in this scenario is that the guy has grabbed and pulled, therefore he not only has me, he has now gained access to my center. Not very cool if you are a jujitsu guy because we are all about keeping people out of our center while we move from our center. So what’s a jujitsu guy/gal to do? Simple. Ghost it. What does ‘ghost it’ mean? You must temporarily disappear. But eventually you will have to reappear so wouldn't it be way cooler if you could disappear and then reappear in a superior position? Think about it. It would be sort of pointless if you just vanished but then reappeared in the exact same disadvantageous position. That would be like Captain Kirk being beamed off the top of a crumbling cliff only to reappear on the said cliff a few seconds later. Rather pointless. So what would a Jedi Knight do? Disappear and then reappear in a superior position. Most smart people would just disappear and run but then you wouldn’t be a kick ass Jedi Knight. And since we are kick ass Jedi Knights we will reappear in a superior position so we can then proceed to make them regret ever having disrupted our perfectly good day.

Before I go further I need to introduce a Japanese word that might be new for some of you. Chidori ashi.
Chidori ashi or the crossover step as many of us call it in the West is a cross step that is rather commonplace in Wado. Chidori ashi is the footwork we use if we want sideways mobility. You can move sideways by shuffling like a crab or you can use the crossover step to move sideways. Kushanku has chidori ashi. Naihanchi has chidori ashi. Seishan has chidori ashi.

What is so special about chidori ashi? If performed correctly it allows you to cover much more distance than trying to just shuffle sideways like a crab. And if done properly it allows you to move in such a way that you constantly remain in the center of you. The importance of remaining in the center of you is worthy of its own dissertation so I’ll have to do that at another time. Just believe me when I say that all Jedi Knights feel it is imperative to remain in the center of them.

So then how to initiate the chidori ashi correctly. For the sake of this visualization you are in shiko dachi. You want to go to your left. (If this was Naihanchi you would be in naihanchi stance.) Most people fail on the initiation because when they go left they push off their right foot. As soon as you push off with your right foot to initiate the crossover your center has been compromised. The correct way to move is to pull from the left foot, not push from the right foot. We are taking about the initiation phase. At some point there may or may not be a baby push off the right foot but that is more an issue of balancing out the forces. The initiation must be done by the pull of the left foot otherwise your STRUCTURE gets compromised and what internal power you have will fizzle.

So chidori ashi. In the initiation phase we pull with our left foot to go to our left.
There is a drill Sensei Threadgill and I did in Berlin. We made the students stand in shiko dachi. We then made them go left or right. So let’s say we told the person to go left. We had another person place their hand on the squatter’s left shoulder to offer resistance. The squatter had to move thru the person offering resistance. If you push off your far leg (right) then your pusher man feels like a wall. You collide with the opponent and don’t get very far. But if you can correctly pull with the left leg then you can actually move the opponent. This simple drill can be done on many different levels.

For example:
1) Push with far leg. Doesn’t work.
2) Pull with closer leg. Kinda get movement
3) Feel the sokuto edge of your (left) closer leg. Cant your foot (turn it) so that the leftmost edge is dug in more than the inside edge. That creates a sort of tension in your left inner thigh that then should help your stability when you try to displace your opponent.
4) Feel the point of contact. His hand placement on your left shoulder. Feel the pressure. Now expand yourself left to right. Use intent. Expand. Then imagine a laser beam shooting out from the elbow of your left shoulder that is being pushed on. Intent. Then with your hyper sensitive Jedi Knight powers sense his center. Then take that laser beam and project it below his center. Intent. Now you are under his center. You just took away his base. Now pull with the left foot. Poof! You easily move him.
5) Go into Heaven Earth Man. 6 directions. Expand fully. Now pull with your left leg.
6) Combine steps 4 and 5. You will move him like he is not even there.
7) Establish Heaven Earth Man. 6 directions. Spiral down the left leg. Spiral up the right leg. Have him push on you with all his might.

Unless he is King Kong you cannot be moved. Now pull with your left leg. You will blast him off his base.
For most of us we will stay at number 2. Number 2 is already using a certain level of internal power.
Steps 3 and above you are enrolled in Jedi Knight Academy. In all seriousness, I think I can teach most people how to do this with a few months of practice? It is not that hard.

Anyway, so at least go to step 2.
Back to ghosting. He has acquired access to your center because he has grabbed and pulled. So you must first disappear. How? It’s actually quite simple and is a standard jujitsu technique. You agree with him. What does that mean? Let’s say he pulls with 5 units of power. (5 units..strictly arbitrary). Relax your elbow and issue 5 units of power into the direction of his pull as you begin your crossover. You must issue 5 units, not 4, not 6 but 5. At that moment you will disappear. At that moment he will lose access to your center because you just agreed with him. You cancelled him out. One second he is yanking on your arm and pulling you. The next second BECAUSE you initiated chidori ashi and agreed with him by extending your elbow you have vanished. He is holding air – similar to Wile E. Coyote http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq_bjaI0NTo. It is critical that you remain in the center of you. It is critical that you maintain your structural integrity as you do this.
So one second he has full access to your center. The next second because you agreed and moved your structure he loses access to your center. Then you reappear on your own terms. How? By you yanking right after you disappear. You reappear by your pulling on him. All of a sudden you are now the master of the universe. You are now accessing his center. The tables got turned. He had it. Then he lost it. Now you went and got his center. And just as he realizes the tables got turned (he is having an ‘oh crap’ moment) he gets blasted to smithereens by a yokogeri. Pure jujitsu followed by pure karate.

So as jujitsu people pretending to be doing karate how are you suppose to do this part of the kata?
Just as you start to pull with your left leg in your chidori ashi you extend your left elbow in agreement with the phantom pull. My elbow moves about 6 inches? That extension is the agreement with the opponent. The rest should be self explanatory as you yank him back to you as you blast him with your yokogeri and land in junzuki no tsukkomi stance.

Try doing this with maegeri. It doesn’t work as well. You blow your structure. Your internal power goes down the drain because in this particular setup you are being grabbed from your side and the vector force of the pull is sideways. So keeping all the bits sideways makes it a whole lot more efficient to blast them if you are a sophisticated jujitsu man. If you just do karate then I can’t help you. This is why Otsuka Sensei did it in yokogeri. And this is why it drives me nuts when I see people do maegeri. They are changing the kata and thus negating all the cool stuff in between the sheets. Every time you thoughtlessly change the kata you are throwing away centuries of sophisticated martial knowledge.
So all of this and more is in the sequence from shiko dachi to chidori ashi yokogeri.

Each kata sequence is loaded with all kinds of jewels. There is enough in the 9 kata to mine them for treasure to last you a lifetime.
Otsuka Sensei once said that martial arts is as deep and profound as the Universe, that there are no limits to the depth of waza. This stuff is endless.

[oneya]

Good to see this post located both in wado chat and wadopedia section Bob. It irks me to see the number of guests always outnumbering the members on line so maybe the double entry will encourage a few more to join if we’re going to delve deeper into power sources.

Interesting to see chidori ashi flow on from Naihanchi kata in the yokogeri set up. Chidori ashi and yokogeri were always a big issue in the early days when the Naihanchi form and Seishan movement were being demonstrated as linked in sequence and pragmatic development. This is a natural flow at this level of study but perhaps is something that may be a disconcerting game changer for those that are not studying other aspects of kata and internal energy for its power development where structure is a necessary consideration.

For me though your post shows precisely why we use the concept of kaisetsu in wado, as well as bunkai for some technical detail. It also shows why this requires a change in awareness that many long held presuppositions must change for any different assumptions between omote and ura in the transition if the sap in kata is to remain alive and not become fossilised.

oneya

[Gusei21]

Something to consider.......

In the internal playground that is large and diverse there is a notion that the concept of Heaven Earth Man / 6 directions is about dynamic stability and that the concept of spirals is the secret to profound power.

The internal power world that encompasses Yoshin ryu and therefore Wado travel down this path.

Now here is the interesting thing for me. The way we do our nagashi uke in kihon kumite (first block), the way we do our block in 8 and 9 (first block), the first block in kihon kumite 4 - they are all spirals. Shotokan, shitoryu, goju, do not use blocks in this manner. Their blocks intercept and send away in the opposing direction, almost 90 degrees at the point of contact. Our blocks do two things. They rotate and they have revolution. The forearm rotates. The angle of the elbow changes as the arm moves (revolution).
Our blocks therefore issue tangents at contact. Or to be more accurate it is orthogonal. That in essence is what happens when you make contact with a spiral. Otsuka Sensei put these spiral blocks intentionally in our kata. Even jodan uke - that is a punch that spirals. Why did is such a major big deal I will leave for another day. But for those of you that know the significance of spirals - these blocks have huge implications. An intercept at 90 degrees has potential kickback. (generic sotouke, uchiuke, gedan barai). A spiral block done properly has none. There is no force even going in to the blocker. Yin and Yang are both present at the point of contact due to the rotation/revolution. A generic block is either yang with a bit of yin or yin with a bit of yang. A spiral has both yin and yang expressed in perfect balance. You must have rotation and revolution.

At this point I defer to Reg. I feel like I don't have the understanding or language skills to do this realization proper justice. I assume Reg has known about these treasures for a long time. It is extremely profound and I am grasping only a small percentage of this. Either Otsuka Sensei was just lucky or he was a true genius. The only thing going thru my mind at the moment is 'holy crap'....it's been there all along and I never saw the significance of it.