Internal Power

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
kyudo
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Re: Internal Power

Post by kyudo »

Gusei21 wrote: So to answer Igor's earlier query...the people that can really do it does not seem to want to teach it....at least to outsiders....
Come to think of it perhaps he chose to hit me for the same reason. He was not about to hit the Finn. He has no desire to show an outsider what it feels like to get hit with internal power.
Maybe. But it seems a bit speculative.
Perhaps he chose to whack you because it is bad manners to whack a guest? Maybe you were the closest available punch bag? And if whacking is part of a 'lesson' then does it come with some oral explanation too? Or are you also left to 'practice correctly' ?

And BTW, is 'having it' really a digital experience? Like having either a black or a white gi? Aren't there any grey gis? Or red or blue, for that matter? From my experience I'd say that there are many shades of grey in martial arts. ;-)
Igor Asselbergs
http://kyudokan.nl/
Gusei21
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Re: Internal Power

Post by Gusei21 »

To answer your first question. Not speculative. He is that way.
Oral lessons only occur in the dojo or after training. Never at public seminars.
In fact he rarely corrects me in public. Something about how other people might be watching and might misconstrue and spread crap about me without understanding what they are really seeing because they are idiots.
He whacks me because he can. And he probably does read my thoughts...lol....
The coolest whack I ever received was when he made me bleed from inside to out. Made a really cool bruise that to this day I have not been able to replicate on anyone else.

And yes I am doing my best to practice correctly. None of this can happen without correct practice. I still suck at it but I think I am getting better a tiny bit at a time although many times it seems like I can't seem to suck enough.
Bob Nash
oneya
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Re: Internal Power

Post by oneya »

kyudo wrote:
Gusei21 wrote: So to answer Igor's earlier query...the people that can really do it does not seem to want to teach it....at least to outsiders....
Come to think of it perhaps he chose to hit me for the same reason. He was not about to hit the Finn. He has no desire to show an outsider what it feels like to get hit with internal power.
And BTW, is 'having it' really a digital experience? Like having either a black or a white gi? Aren't there any grey gis? Or red or blue, for that matter? From my experience I'd say that there are many shades of grey in martial arts. ;-)
Hi Igor,

WTF. I am getting older by the minute here... Can you please clarify why a black or white dogi is a 'digital experience' but not a grey dogi... or a red or blue dogi for that matter... and how a digital experience relates to internal power? D'you see 'internal power' as being a digital experience for instance.. or is a 'digital experience' only possible via some kind of apparatus.??
Oneya..
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
kyudo
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:00 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Internal Power

Post by kyudo »

oneya wrote:I am getting older by the minute here... Can you please clarify why a black or white dogi is a 'digital experience' but not a grey dogi... or a red or blue dogi for that matter... and how a digital experience relates to internal power? D'you see 'internal power' as being a digital experience for instance.. or is a 'digital experience' only possible via some kind of apparatus.??
Oneya..
I for one, tend to use an apparatus for boosting my internal power. A baseball bat, for instance. ;-)

What I meant is that Bob earlier alluded to 'either having it (internal power) or not'. That is digital in the sense of duality: you either got it or you don't. I would argue that some people may have some of it. And the one person's internal power might not be the same as the next person's.
Igor Asselbergs
http://kyudokan.nl/
Gusei21
Posts: 403
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:43 am

Re: Internal Power

Post by Gusei21 »

kyudo wrote:
What I meant is that Bob earlier alluded to 'either having it (internal power) or not'. That is digital in the sense of duality: you either got it or you don't. I would argue that some people may have some of it. And the one person's internal power might not be the same as the next person's.
Igor,

Most people have none.
Most people don't even know it exists.
And the ones that do will never possess it.
A very few have it.
And yes there are shades.
And the really good people do not agree on all the details.
So your comment about digital is ..a waste of breathe?
Of course everything is analog...and most people are on one end of the analog scale.
My point is that most people who have it have no interest in sharing it, at least to the masses.
And from my experience it takes a lot of work and correct instruction.
Sagawa did 1,500 pushups per day in his pursuit of this stuff. Not to mention all kinds of other exercises. He trained all day, everyday.
It takes a certain type of maniacal dedication.
I think the really wise people who know this stuff perhaps realizes that explaining this is just a waste of breathe since the audience won't get it anyway?
Plus you end up creating a bunch of goobers who talk like they know but they can't do anything.
If you can't fight with it then it is worthless in my opinion.
At the end of the day you have to be able to destroy people otherwise what's the point?
That's where most tai chi fails in my opinion. But then again most karate people can't really fight either so we fail just like tai chi, aikido and the rest. Sometimes I think sumo is the only place where you are forced to manifest power. I'm only talking about unarmed combat. Put a sword in someone's hands and you change the equation. But then put a knife or a sword in the hands of someone with internal power and it is no longer funny. That's when you reach for your gun (if you live in America).
Bob Nash
go rin no sho
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Re: Internal Power

Post by go rin no sho »

Perhaps sensei takagi thought that the Finn would "see"how the power was generated instead of feeling

Jussi
J.Petrelius
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Gusei21
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Re: Internal Power

Post by Gusei21 »

go rin no sho wrote:Perhaps sensei takagi thought that the Finn would "see"how the power was generated instead of feeling

Jussi
??
Bob Nash
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Re: Internal Power

Post by go rin no sho »

I mean that if he ( takagi sensei ) would have punched him, he ( the finn ) might have missed it totally - because of the pain.
J.Petrelius
www.joenmawashi.fi
Gusei21
Posts: 403
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Re: Internal Power

Post by Gusei21 »

Funny Jussi. Perhaps.
A word about speculation from afar.
One time a bunch of senior Japanese senseis were sitting ata dinner table and they were making a hand gesture similar to the one in Pinan 4 where you sweep the opponent's leg away with your right hand.
Everyone was speculating that the Japanese Sensei were discussing the intricacies of the movement when in fact they were discussing the angle of their erection when they woke up in the morning....
Or
The other day when we were trying to teach the crossover step in naihanchi and seishan to the non Japanese.
They were crossing over incorrectly. We tried a few things and as they were wondering what we were doing one of us had concluded that perhaps the gaijin penis was too big and was getting in their way....
Bob Nash
oneya
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Re: Internal Power

Post by oneya »

Igor wrote.

What I meant is that Bob earlier alluded to 'either having it (internal power) or not'. That is digital in the sense of duality: you either got it or you don't. I would argue that some people may have some of it. And the one person's internal power might not be the same as the next person's.
Ah Igor them digital dangers, at first I thought this meant ‘flipping the bird’ which is also something my daughter had to explain, but in her doing so I was reminded again that the young often omit historical relevance.

Anyway, it seems to me we have to consider here that wado ryu as such, operates on many and varied levels of understanding and like many other Asian martial arts in general are not bound by the historical structure and limitations of western culture and its philosophy. So when seeking to grasp the more obscure aspects we often need to lay aside our traditional beliefs and certainly any digital thinking. If we can do this it becomes clear that there is a point where Wado ryu and other martial arts can slip seamlessly from the physical to the meta-physical and, just as seamlessly, segue back again. This is sometimes referred to as Yuukei and Musei (有形と無形) where the digital (black or white) thinker will often find himself in shoal water. However if we are aware of this, internal power( as opposed to internal energy) is a simple proposition and very much like wado ryu kihon waza where again, you either train correctly and train sufficiently to attain, achieve or understand it to possess it or 'get it' and have it or you do not. It is part of the process - for some.

Much like kihon waza it needs the framework and the intent to make this happen but unlike kihon waza it is only manifest internally in the process of being and will leave no shadow. While many kuchi-bushi often find this convenient the reality is, it is an aspect of martial training that is hard wrought and even harder won so it is rarely the meat of forums like this. It is not impossible though and the place to start seeking it is to simply admit that you do not have it and make it your intention to get it. To do this you will need to give up what you think you have.

Wado ryu is also and always like this and isn’t this part of why we practice.?

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
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