All Wado Karate Forum

Gusei21 wrote:Correct kihon. Perfect kihon.

To return to the subject...
My point is this: if revenue is more important than kihon > McDojo
But if kihon is more important, the dojo might still be profitable. Though it's more difficult...

In all fairness:
I decided years ago that I didn't want to live of Wado. I didn't want the hassle of maintaining quality while still earning a living. But I respect people who do.

kyudo wrote:
In all fairness:
I decided years ago that I didn't want to live of Wado. I didn't want the hassle of maintaining quality while still earning a living. But I respect people who do.

?????
You are saying that when are you earning a living you want to do a crap job or did something get lost in translation?

Gusei21 wrote: What constitutes a McDojo?
And why would they have more blackbelts?

My understanding that the term "McDojo" related to the 'franchise model' that certain karate associations (*cough* GKR *cough*) operate - you sign up; pay a lot of money; become a black belt a few months later; then go open your own club and start knocking on doors to get more people to sign up. Most of the money goes to the top of the pyramid of course.

Gusei21 wrote:You are saying that when are you earning a living you want to do a crap job?

It depends on what you consider a crap job.
If you are chef at el Bulli, a McBurger would be a crap job.
If you are ceo at McDonalds, having only a couple of million in revenue would be a crap job.
But you can't be chef at el Bulli AND have the revenue of McDonalds. Everyone should make his own choices. I made mine. But I still respect the choices of others.

kyudo wrote:

Gusei21 wrote:You are saying that when are you earning a living you want to do a crap job?

It depends on what you consider a crap job.
If you are chef at el Bulli, a McBurger would be a crap job.
If you are ceo at McDonalds, having only a couple of million in revenue would be a crap job.
But you can't be chef at el Bulli AND have the revenue of McDonalds. Everyone should make his own choices. I made mine. But I still respect the choices of others.

Definitely lost in translation.
Sorry Igor. I meant that you would intentionally want to do a poor job. A job not done well. I was not referring to the social status of a job.
I meant poor performance.
Funny.

kyudo wrote: But I still respect the choices of others.

Hi Igor,
I'm afraid that I disagree with the statement above. The difference is that the CEO of McDonald's isn't brainwashing their burger flippers into thinking that (s)he is as skilled as the head chef of el Bulli or telling them that they will walk out the door of McDonalds with the skills to perform in a high end restaurant. I find it hard to respect the choices of others if their choice is to deceive others and themselves. In the worst case, folks can get seriously hurt if they buy into the hype and believe that they can deal with dangerous situations when walking away is an option. Then there is the issue of the heavy emphasis on kids classes that many "McDojos" push to keep the coffers rolling in. I'm not too comfortable with unscrupulous people teaching impressionable kids - especially when they pile on the 'dojo kun' with a trowel to elevate their status in the kids' eyes.

I'm sure that there are McDojo-esque clubs that aren't doing any harm and those attending are just having fun, which is perhaps the sort of place that you are referring? There should always be room for having fun after all :).

Laurie

laurie wrote:

kyudo wrote: But I still respect the choices of others.

Hi Igor,
I'm afraid that I disagree with the statement above. The difference is that the CEO of McDonald's isn't brainwashing their burger flippers into thinking that (s)he is as skilled as the head chef of el Bulli or telling them that they will walk out the door of McDonalds with the skills to perform in a high end restaurant. I find it hard to respect the choices of others if their choice is to deceive others and themselves. In the worst case, folks can get seriously hurt if they buy into the hype and believe that they can deal with dangerous situations when walking away is an option. Then there is the issue of the heavy emphasis on kids classes that many "McDojos" push to keep the coffers rolling in. I'm not too comfortable with unscrupulous people teaching impressionable kids - especially when they pile on the 'dojo kun' with a trowel to elevate their status in the kids' eyes.

I'm sure that there are McDojo-esque clubs that aren't doing any harm and those attending are just having fun, which is perhaps the sort of place that you are referring? There should always be room for having fun after all :).

Laurie

Hi Laurie,

You were going along very well there and I almost started to nod in agreement- but then I found myself getting thoughts of "hoisted on petards" when I saw this:

There should always be room for having fun after all :).

Now, I have really tried very hard but cannot find this (your) assertion anywhere in the philosophy of martial arts generally or in Wado Ryu more specifically and wondered...?

D'you not think the concept of "having fun" may just be 'up there' just like Ronald MacDonald is up there, simply to attract the kids in what is a very serious occupation..??

oneya

Hi Oneya,
I was meaning that places that are honest about what they do and offer, that don't pretend to be anything more than a place for fun for kids and adults, have a place in society - not as a place to learn Wado Ryu or to fly under the Wado banner (as this would violate the requirement to be honest). With regards to Wado Ryu, I think that there is most definitely room for having fun - I don't think that 'fun' and 'serious' are exclusive to one another, it just depends on where you derive your enjoyment. For instance, dealing with a full-blooded attack in sanbon kumite is 'fun', as it demonstrates that you've at least improved enough not to get pegged and at best you get to taste a little of what wado movement is supposed to be about.

Laurie

I can't quite come at that Laurie it sounds too much like Lewis Carrol's Humpty Dumpty.

"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."

Can I just say I'd be looking for a really serious cardiac surgeon rather than a guy having fun at work if I was in need of a quad bi-pass and I'd be just as serious about a Wado Ryu sensei with the requisite gravitas also.. I don't think prospective students of wado ryu are looking for another playground even though they may come to enjoy the training at a later date. If, as you say, you are concerned about "places that are honest about what they do and offer" then I feel telling kids wado ryu can be fun seems to me to be motivated by un-mentioned profit of some kind, while telling them it can be dangerous is a fact. Perhaps we can agree to differ.

oneya

laurie wrote:Hi Igor,
I'm afraid that I disagree with the statement above.

I guess I need to clarify...
I don't really care if people wear a black belt after only a few months of training. I don't value my own black belt high enough to care. As far as I'm concerned, everyone can wear any belt they like.
That said, I don not condone brainwashing people into thinking they can get proficient in wado after only a few months of training. It takes a heck of a lot more than that.
Talking of brainwashing. Most people have been brainwashed into believing a black belt is proof of proficiency. Screw the belts. They only serve to keep the gi together. The colors are a marketing scheme that didn''t even originate in Japan. From the onset, the belt colors were a way to tie students to the dojo. It then spread in much the same way as a franchise all over the world. Doesn't that sound exactly like a McDojo scheme?