Sanbon Jodan Uke #3

[majin29]

Grading for the orange belts was happening last evening so the only other green belt and I went through our own drills together (combinations, all kata up to our kyu level, Oyo #1, and sanbon sets). Both of us were having difficulties on Jodan Uke #3 especially with that snapping lunge punch that is supposed to catch the nage's punch, deflect it and hit to the face in one deft motion. Neither of us were getting the timing down so we decided to strip it down to the component that was giving us troubles and isolated that one part of the sanbon. I employed a drill similar to what I learned in Wing Chun when I did that for awhile since that too had a lot of close contact, interactivity with a partner. Even though our forearms and wrists were all red by the end of this drill, I thought we both improved on the timing and distancing of this sanbon.

Just wondering if isolating parts of sanbon is really wise or whether we should have just gone through the entire set. One of our chief instructors did say once it's always the third part of the sanbon that is the key to work on- so I just used his advice and went from there...

Good class though. I'm so happy that my interest and motivation is still going strong. If anything, the more waza I'm exposed to, the more I want to learn. I'm thinking of stepping up my training more in the Fall. If money and time were no object, I'd take 4 classes a week. Right now Wado is my salvation as there's been a lot of heaviosity in my life of late.

[WadoAJ]

Hi Majin,

it is very difficult to say anything constructive without seeing you do it. But in general I would say more practice. Perhaps you can try starting nagashizuki earlier to catch ukemi earlier in the process of his jodanzuki.

AJ

[majin29]

Hi Majin,

it is very difficult to say anything constructive without seeing you do it. But in general I would say more practice. Perhaps you can try starting nagashizuki earlier to catch ukemi earlier in the process of his jodanzuki.

AJ

Thanks AJ. I also appreciate the terminology. At some point I should ground in the Japanese terms as I'm sure they will become more omnipresent as I continue to study and progress.

[Gary]

I love Jodan-uke #3 :)

It's a very sword-like thing also, which is a double tick in my box.

To deflect a thrust by thrusting along the centre line...

It's all about the centre line ;)

Gary

[oneya]

Hi manjin, not everyone would know ‘sanbon kumite jodan uke sanbonme’ because it was developed by Suzuki Tatsuo for the UK and European wado sectors. All of Suzuki sensei’s wado ryu teachings are gold mines with a plethora of rich seams of deeper understanding of wado ryu practice. I don't wish to disagree with your seniors but in my experience: isolating any one part as key may cause a limited view and understanding of the continuous flow that connects other aspects of the greater whole. What appears to be a nagasu problem at any moment may likely morph into an inasu, noru or taisabaki problem in the next so each section must be highly polished to enable the whole. This is tanren or renshu as Suzuki sensei would say after a little correction, tanren is what makes your wado.

Sanbon kumite is not only something to learn but also something to learn from and this is only part of its dynamic beauty where an open mind will see its relevance in the wider world beyond its set pieces.

oneya

[WadoAJ]

HI Majin,

thank you for your reply. I would like to add something regarding isolation.

From a teaching point of view, isolation means to give attention to specific elements. As Oneya said "may cause a limited view". Be careful.

For example, you have problems with Jodan Uke 3. If you were in my Dojo I would probably let you do it over and over. But. It may also be the case that I would advise you to practice a method that focuses purely on the element that you have problems with. This is simply a more effective way to address to the issue. However, this method is just a means to an end. Hence, you still have to do Jodan Uke 3.

Another one. (Between you and me, I don't like this method)
For mawatte Jodan uke for example. Beginners are often taught to stay with the front foot, step across with their back foot, landing on the ball of the foot and then turn the body. This does not help. That said, I can understand why teachers use these kind of methods, but I have seen so many who didn't know how to actually do mawatte jodan uke because they got stuck in that (terrible) method. I guess even their teacher thought that it was supposed to be like that.

AJ


edit: Concicidentely I picked up my book again and I came across this part. If I didn't make sense before then I probably will now.


" For example, you can write 1 till 10, but number 5 is difficult. Would you write down 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 or would you do 5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5. Make sure to attend to your priorities, but beware, as your priorities change all the time and getting stuck in a method is most dangerous. A method is just a means to an end."

[oneya]

Hi AJ,

If you are going to qualify something that I have said we might as well get to the nub of what I am saying. My use of the term ‘Isolation’ in this instance means “to give attention to specific elements to the exclusion of all else” However the tanren practice of polishing elements in wado ryu would be more inclusive rather than exclusive, which was more my point and my reasoning.

My comment was really directed more at the suggestion that: In a set piece kata like sanbon kumite with an abundance of elements resting on a few principles, to suggest that only one element held the key to its perfecting could well be seen as a moot point, much like advising someone to simply do it over and over. Would you not agree that practicing something over and over is only sensible if you are doing it correctly in the first place and then it is tanren that makes the difference.

oneya

[WadoAJ]

Hi AJ,

If you are going to qualify something that I have said we might as well get to the nub of what I am saying. My use of the term ‘Isolation’ in this instance means “to give attention to specific elements to the exclusion of all else” However the tanren practice of polishing elements in wado ryu would be more inclusive rather than exclusive, which was more my point and my reasoning.

My comment was really directed more at the suggestion that: In a set piece kata like sanbon kumite with an abundance of elements resting on a few principles, to suggest that only one element held the key to its perfecting could well be seen as a moot point, much like advising someone to simply do it over and over. Would you not agree that practicing something over and over is only sensible if you are doing it correctly in the first place and then it is tanren that makes the difference.

oneya

Hi Oneya,

meanwhile I had edited my post.

Of course, if you practice over and over and you practice incorrectly it doesn't help either. But I'm sure you know that I mean that it has to be reassessed all the time. This assessing and reassessing should be done by sensei, but most of all it should be an act of intrinsic motivation of the practicioner. I think we once mailed about 20 years or 2 years 10 times. If I say "practice" I do not mean repeat without thinking. It is committing to the process and "the road" and living it actively. I consider that a student does this already, so "repeating over and over" means to practice with purpose.

As for exclusive, if that helps to get a better understanding and execution I don't see a problem. I do see a problem if this understanding is not translated into the inclusive. In that case making elements exclusive did not serve their purpose.

edit: for many people kihon, kata and kumite are separate things. For me it is connected, this is where I was getting at.

AJ

[majin29]

Thanks Oneya and AJ. I'm glad I bounced this idea off of you both as I recognize I'm my formative years of studying Wado and don't wish to pick up bad habits. I did worry about leaving out some crucial elements that make up the sanbon as a whole so I'm glad that you clarified this to me.

As always, I'm grateful that this forum exists.

David

[oneya]

HI Majin,



edit: Concicidentely I picked up my book again and I came across this part. If I didn't make sense before then I probably will now.


" For example, you can write 1 till 10, but number 5 is difficult. Would you write down 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 or would you do 5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5. Make sure to attend to your priorities, but beware, as your priorities change all the time and getting stuck in a method is most dangerous. A method is just a means to an end."

AJ, Are you telling me you are quoting this stuff from a book..?

oneya