All Wado Karate Forum

I know what 'koiguchigiri' is literally and Gary was good enough to interpret its meaning in wadopedia but anyone have scuttlebutt on why it came to be..

obliged

oneya

I think the opening of the scabbard is called the koi guchi, as it resembles the fish's mouth and giri means to cut it as in cutting the mouth of the scabbard as you are drawing the sword out.

Only a guess.

wadoka wrote:I think the opening of the scabbard is called the koi guchi, as it resembles the fish's mouth and giri means to cut it as in cutting the mouth of the scabbard as you are drawing the sword out.

Only a guess.

Yes that is the part I understand Gordon, almost as if creating the mouth by the drawing action.. I wondered at its historical origins.

obliged though,

oneya

Hi Reg,

Would need to defer to Steve or Toby re the origins of the name.

Steve is in Japan at the moment, so I'm not sure if he is dialling in too frequently.

As I understand it, its means the draw (or the cut) that emanates from the Koiguchi - ie the cut from the mouth of the saya (straight from the fish's mouth).

It’s not too dissimilar to the quick-draw gun slingers of the wild west - who used to "shoot from the hip" I guess?

What I do find interesting in the role the left hand plays in performing this initial cut (from the fish's mouth):

Schools have differing approaches, but what I have learnt has involved using the thumb and index finger on the tsuba to ease the blade out of the koiguchi the first inch or so, then turning the blade to the angle of the cut as the left hand takes sword (and saya) to meet the right - all in one smooth movement - or at least it supposed to be, but I usually make a right hash of it.

All good fun though :)

Gary

http://www.artsfeng.com/product/fk169-j ... h-kojiri-1

Nice assortment of Xmas presents for Gary here.

oneya

Thanks Reg, I have started writing my letter to Santa already.

Btw, I should have probably used the term Nukitsuke (draw and cut) rather than Koiguchi-kiri.

Gary

Gary wrote:Thanks Reg, I have started writing my letter to Santa already.

Btw, I should have probably used the term Nukitsuke (draw and cut) rather than Koiguchi-kiri.

Gary

Ah, that's probably why I'm thinking 'koiguchi' is just a decorative item signifying the courage of the Carp. I could have asked my son but then he might just figure out his birthday present.

Nukitsuke is interesting - familiar kanji 拔付 also.

oneya

From the very, very little I know, to me the drawing of the sword has all the hallmarks of san mi ittai and similar to discussions on "hikite versus the punching hand."

By that I might the pulling back for the saya (sayabiki), turning/changing the body and then completing the intended technique. Process considerations cover all three aspects and not just pulling the sword to cut, as in not just using the front hand to punch.

More than happy to be corrected on this as it is just my own personal musings.

wadoka wrote:From the very, very little I know, to me the drawing of the sword has all the hallmarks of san mi ittai and similar to discussions on "hikite versus the punching hand."

By that I might the pulling back for the saya (sayabiki), turning/changing the body and then completing the intended technique. Process considerations cover all three aspects and not just pulling the sword to cut, as in not just using the front hand to punch.

More than happy to be corrected on this as it is just my own personal musings.

Hi Gordon,

I don’t think you are far off the mark at all, in fact, if it wasn't for a necessary trip to Tesco - I would have beaten you to it.

As I mentioned earlier, the way we do koiguchi-kiri (in our "Omote" kata set anyway) utilises the left hand meeting and feeding the sword into the right. As we then perform suihei nukitsuke we turn our torso 45 degrees (and as part of the cut the left hand withdraws the saya).

When teaching beginners tobikomizuki - I get them moving in a way where both hands travel up into the centre line in front of the forward moving body etc.

Not too dissimilar at all.

I can hear the old fella chucklin'

oneya