Great book

[Gusei21]

Hi,

I downloaded a book called Shotokan Myths by Kousaku Yokota via Kindle.
I did that a month ago but only glanced at it yesterday.
To my surprise Yokota Sensei goes after a lot of stuff I always found to be a bit odd about Shotokan.
Pleasant surprise. He even went after the idea of the hikite which I was going to discuss when I had time.
In short the hikite is a deadend that is worthless for higher blackbelts especially in Wado since in Wado we aren't really suppose to use our hikite for power generation. We use something else. Takagi Sensei said that if you use the hikite for power generation then you are at a disadvantage in combat because that means you are taking away 50 percent of your hand weapons. (you still have a head butt, knee, feet) . He said that was not very martial and certainly not Wado. By using the left hand to generate power for the right hand then at the moment you use the right to hit the left is too busy feeding the right instead of being available for offense or defense. And that is find and dandy but then some other part has to kick in to compensate for power generation and that part is what we call in Wado 'the body'. But how to utilize this is part of the skill of an advanced Wadoka. Easier said than done. And that is where all this grounding work comes into play. (rootedness, whatever you want to call it. All that internal strength stuff I guess). And what you will discover once you figure this out is that you will not only be faster but more powerful. And that is the secret to why Takagi Sensei is so freakin fast. But that is a topic I plan to cover in the wadopeidia section when I get the time.
But anyway Yokota goes after Tekki, kiai, the necessity of returning to the same spot, etc.
He pretty much dumps everything at the feet of the people who came after Funakoshi Sensei which would make perfect sense to us because that explains why Otsuka Sensei did not inherit all this odd Shotokan baggage because he broke away before they created Shotokan version 2.0.

Anyway, the book was really cheap on Kindle so I encourage all of you to download and enjoy.

When I get the time I will go into this conundrum of hikite usage in the Wado context. For a preview go check out Hakoishi Sensei doing Pinan nidan in the Wadokai video. 6th movement. Gedan barai to the front. He does not use his hikite at all. Many people say he is using it but you just can't see it. Good luck with that...those people will never be good if they pursue that path. He is not using his right arm for power generation for his left handed gedan to the front. He is using his right back leg for power generation. In other words he is using his body to block.
This all ties into how we should be really using tate seishan. Tate seishan was not an accident. It was carefully thought out. And that is why only Wado has tate seishan....well not really..the surfers have it too.. and for similar reasons. You can't surf in shiko dachi. In fact some peoplle call surfing in shiko dachi the pooh stance because it looks like you are taking a poo. Doesn't work because you can't fine tune your center of gravity placement which is so essential to surfing. A stance that allows your knees to sort of come together is much for efficient because in that stance you can fine tune the center of gravity placement which then allows you to carve/trim your board. Hmm....yes....if you can surf then you can more easily figure out Wado/tate seishan usage. I've blabbed on too long. Will elaborate when I get the time in the kihon section.

[oneya]

Hi Bob,

Not to be picky but just so we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater; in defense of ‘hikite’ - although the fact that wado ryu is a process should be defense enough to understand that the practice of learning the fundamentals is not the practice of the advanced student who sees Ohtsuka meijin’s total body movement being the ideal to which we should aspire.

Wado practice of hikite (with the opposing arm) is very useful in the early stages of coordinating sections of the body to understand how energy is generated through the body as a whole when moving from its centre. Hikite is obviously a legacy from the single direction and mindedness of shiai training in the universities when the ‘enemy’ was only a schoolboy or initiate like one’s self and armed with exactly the same weapons so perhaps there is no need for a martial spirit in the greater sense of its meaning. Its uses in shiai and many dojo hangs around like the residual installation package on a computer update until kihon kumite - like Piriform’s CCleaner - brings its epiphany, enlightenment and demise, leaving its residual essence still evident throughout the Principles.

I need another lifetime.

oneya

[Gusei21]

Hi Reg,

This is one reason I need to be careful about what I write when I am pressed for time.
Yes the baby.
The baby has long since departed for some but yes I am only teaching this stuff to my sandans or higher.
It is fun watching my senior students becoming faster and more powerful AND it requires less energy input.
You can do this while maintaining a smile on your face. In fact if you grimace then you are doing it wrong.
Robbie Smith shared with me that he approaches this by having his students use only 80 percent of their hikite power as a way of weaning them off the hikite. I thought that was a novel approach.
For the majority of the student population the orthodox use of the hikite is fine.
But after many years of training you start to use it less and less until in the end it is just an ornament.
I don't have the time to go into details right now since I know if I go down that road I will surely only confuse people.
What I am trying to do with advance students is to give them a way to approach this thing. It is trial and error and fortunately I am blessed with many experimental subjects. I am sure what I say and do tomorrow will be different from what I say and do today. But the proof is in the results and I am seeing them in my students. Since February when Takagi Sensei gave me a major hint things have totally changed. I will spend the rest of the year testing and see where it takes us.

A few observations: no one at the top level in kumite uses the hikite for power generation because they are too busy attacking and blocking at the same time. Both hands must be able to move independently of each other.
So that is all fine and dandy in the world of tag competition.
The issue is how do you generate the same power output without the aid of the hikite hand. The only way to accomplish that is thru the correct utilization of the body structure. As Takagi Sensei always said - make friends with the planet earth. What he means is for one to carry their structure in the optimum form via fascia tendon muscle center of gravity. Some people call it internal strength. Sensei just whacks you faster than lightning while he maintains a grin on his face.

[Normanski]

Hi, on the subject of hikite in shotokan...

the literal "pulling hand" as it was explained to me has been misunderstood and mistaught for a generation. Wado doesn't seem to use the practice so much but what it should actually be is a grab and pull as is evidenced a lot clearer in basic goju katas. The whole get faster by pulling the arm back faster may or may not be true but the original okinawan idea was that hikite was a grab/imobbolisiation and then you hit with the other hand. As shotokan went more down the tournament/sport side this application was disregarded and in most cases forgotten.

[oneya]

You can do this while maintaining a smile on your face. In fact if you grimace then you are doing it wrong.

As you know Bob I am one that feels the smile is a much more advanced level of wado ryu than the grimace because it usually comes from someone who has joined up a few of the many dots of the wado ryu enigma so I hear what you are saying. My reason for the reply was to put hikite in its place and mark its value as part of the process in case a bad rep spooked the young ‘uns.

Robbie Smith shared with me that he approaches this by having his students use only 80 percent of their hikite power as a way of weaning them off the hikite. I thought that was a novel approach.

Again to return to the (my) beginnings, Suzuki sensei marked the (opposing arm hikite) vanishing point well in his non verbal teachings by employing the use of yoi dachi, musubi dachi and heisoku dachi respectively as mnemonic starting points for sanbon kumite, ohyo kumite and kihon kumite with the opposing arm hikite outliving its usefulness beyond sanbon kumite. It seemed to work well.

The issue is how do you generate the same power output without the aid of the hikite hand. The only way to accomplish that is thru the correct utilization of the body structure. As Takagi Sensei always said - make friends with the planet earth. What he means is for one to carry their structure in the optimum form via fascia tendon muscle center of gravity.

And you are right of course, all these parts of the sum have their place in the scheme of thing and need their moment in the sun in terms of power generation and facility en route to an understanding of the collective fascia tendon muscle centre of gravity facility for wado movement - but it is a long road and one that I personally would not wish to shorten. I can’t imagine life without wado and I am quite willing to dawdle along the way.

I have the book and it confirms my thoughts that Shoto, as excellent as it is in terms of karate, is still a virus in terms of Wado ryu.

oneya.

[oneya]

Hi, on the subject of hikite in shotokan...

the literal "pulling hand" as it was explained to me has been misunderstood and mistaught for a generation. Wado doesn't seem to use the practice so much but what it should actually be is a grab and pull as is evidenced a lot clearer in basic goju katas. The whole get faster by pulling the arm back faster may or may not be true but the original okinawan idea was that hikite was a grab/imobbolisiation and then you hit with the other hand. As shotokan went more down the tournament/sport side this application was disregarded and in most cases forgotten.

Hi Normanski,

This is a good point and I understand what you are saying but I think in wado ryu the 'pulling hand' is more likely to be associated with kake uke rather that hikite specific limb centric body movement referred to here.

oneya

[Gusei21]

Robbie Smith shared with me that he approaches this by having his students use only 80 percent of their hikite power as a way of weaning them off the hikite. I thought that was a novel approach.

Again to return to the (my) beginnings, Suzuki sensei marked the (opposing arm hikite) vanishing point well in his non verbal teachings by employing the use of yoi dachi, musubi dachi and heisoku dachi respectively as mnemonic starting points for sanbon kumite, ohyo kumite and kihon kumite with the opposing arm hikite outliving its usefulness beyond sanbon kumite. It seemed to work well.



I have the book and it confirms my thoughts that Shoto, as excellent as it is in terms of karate, is still a virus in terms of Wado ryu.

oneya.

Hi Reg,

I will push this into the kihon section since I don't want to elaborate here and have to repeat myself later but..
The typical problem I see is when people use the hikite they have tension in their shoulder.
So both the punch arm has tension and the pulling arm has tension.
But if the hikite becomes an 'ornament' then the hikite shoulder no longer has any tension and the upper body relaxes more in general which aids in a smoother delivery of the punch provided the person already has near perfect form, timing, body awareness, etc.
The hikite is still used in kihon but it is used more for timing I think instead of power generation. So we still 'take the hikite' (hikite o toru) but we don't connect the hikite to the other hand since that only limits your progress. It's a deadend. But a necessary deadend since everything is a tool to get to the next level.

Shoto virus? Made me spill my coffee...

I firmly believe there has to be a better way to teach this stuff so more people can have access to it. I think the current pedegogy is outdated and only makes it accessible to the determined few who are lucky to have a good instructor. And the simple reality is this: if you try this stuff without proper instruction it will turn into a big mess - a hilarious mess. But if you have the proper base then it will take you really far. At the end of the day this is only about superior body movement, not new technique. Superior body movement enables you to utilize techniques on a higher plane. This isn't about new sweeps or new punches or new takedowns. It's about revisiting the simple junzuki, the gedan barai, the jodan uke, gyakuzuki but taking it to a higher place.
My junzuki is getting there. I am not happy with my gedan barai. I think I figured out the jodan uke for now. Gyakuzuki is tons of fun. But I am sure tomorrow I will be unhappy with all of it. Such is the nature of this spiral like learning process. Then you take all this stuff and integrate it into your kata.
So this is not about learning new kumite gatas. I don't know anything about that stuff. Don't know anything about jion, jitte or rohai either and for now I don't even care. It's only about relearning how to do a step in junzuki from shizentai. Just trying to figure that out keeps me entertained and challenged. Doing the crossover step kick junzuki no tsukkomi gedan in seishan has given me fits for months. Nothing more.

[oneya]

Hi Bob,

I think maybe hikite is probably taught as a very simple co-ordination matter in the preamble before we get to the uses and abuses of hikite as a technique and - having saved the baby - there is more to follow as far as hikite goes: There is some technical and emotional salve when we ratchet up a few cogs to Seishan and its noru, kake application and more in san no ya sanbon kumite and kihon kumite so I guess it offers further stepping stones and moments of epiphany along the way. Certainly seishan’s no-tsukomi techniques are part of the wado therapy and after a few decades I am learning to smile, especially as I find from my wado ryu perspective I have fewer concerns than Yokata sensei.

As far as the pedagogy is concerned: once we label something people automatically see a right and wrong way to interpret and teach its function despite its seasons or any epistemological warrant. Teachers need to learn also because certainly Funakoshi Gigo’s ghost still stalks many wado dojo despite the fact that most wado dojo are not about to go to war. Perhaps it’s the seminars that keep this rank and file warrior tradition going with the boom and bust cycles of popularity of the wooden dummy days. I have no doubt that ten serious students that have been around for decades get a different education from the ephemeral seminar flock who get their jam or jelly spread very thin. I am also convinced that seminars need very courageous sensei who will teach fundamentals until his breath runs out rather than feed the mob a diet that is too rich, but it’s a living I guess

oneya

[go rin no sho]

Hi bob,

Interesting stuff...

Perhaps this is the reason why there are so many double punches and blocks in advanced wado kata...

...to restrict the use of hikite for generating power???


Jussi Petrelius

[wadoka]

I am not sure that the double blocks/punches of so called advanced kata have that role or function.

We only need to look at the last four movements of Pinan Nidan and also the practise of tobikomizuki quite early in our training for the "no hikite". We also practise many standing kihon in jigotai dachi (wider than yoi dachi) starting with both arms held up in front of the body.

As Bob said, the movement he is talking about is not kyu grade/low fan grade stuff. We all have to go through the bigger movement stuff to forge the body as Reg has repeatedly said previously. In teaching kyu grades and watching their execution of techniques, I only need to look at the belt knot area to see if there is any life in it.

We seem to progress from turning and rotating to everything being straight, even if it looks like turning or rotating. Then again, sensei keeps on shouting don't turn at us for a good reason.