dan grade policy

[kyudo]

What to do when a student joins the dojo with an inferior dan grade?

I had a new student, recently. He is a 15 year old shodan. He passed his test with the International Budo Federation, which despite the name looks like a small local organization. But frankly, in my dojo he qualifies for a blue belt at best.

So what to do? Kick him out? Downgrade him to a kyu grade? Let him keep his black belt but tell him he needs to take another shodan test? I'm with JKF-Wadokai, but there's no way he would qualify for a JKF shodan now. He's a nice kid and I feel for him. With proper guidance he might make a decent dan grade someday. It's not his fault that some idiot gave him a black belt. My instinct is to let him keep his black belt and tell him he'll need to pass another shodan test eventually. But I'm hesitant...

So, if you're a sensei, what is your policy? Have you ever dealt with this kind of situation?

[oneya]

Hi,

I don’t actually have a policy either Igor so I have to look at each new student as an individual. The dojo is a private non commercial dojo so I mostly teach students at a much higher level than beginners to wado ryu but I interview each applicant that contacts me directly now. The last one I interviewed had some prior experience so I suggested a trusted senior student that he take him on privately for an introductory period to see how he shapes up for the change to wado ryu. During this time the senior ( In this case: Tony Moore who has been with me for something like thirty years now) will discuss the meaning of any prior dan grade issues as he is working the fella through the differences between wado ryu and his prior experience and hopefully bringing him/her up to speed for the dojo. He does this at no charge to the student so his intention - for the student - has no other motive except to introduce him to the wado ryu experience and ease him into the dojo. Of course it also helps to establish a sempai/kohai exchange which can continue for many years.

In the case of your student the fact that he is only 15 years of age and already changing styles needs to be handled with care I would think.

oneya

[claas]

Hi,

Just give him a white belt and be polite about it.
Our mechanics resemble in some ways some Chinese arts more than they do the other karates. Also they sometime resemble other Japanese arts more than Okinawan karate.

The point is that every grade is a grade in a style or an art. The grades are not interchangeable.

Anyone who starts in a new art really should drop the ego. The more the trainee is willing to forget, the faster he will reach his level in the new art. Also building it step by step from the basics (following the grading system) is a good thing. When not so much ego is involved, that shouldn't take so much time.

In 2-3 years a good shodan in any style will "reach his level", provided that he drops the ego.
This "reaching the level" is really an illusion. Not one sane black-belt Karateka would ever go to an Aikido club and insist on being regarded as a dan-holder. The situation is not so much different in between karate styles.


If I would start in a new style, I would really want to begin with the basics. Otherwise I would get it all wrong. I can't see any other way than to build it up from the beginning. If someone doesn't look at it this way, then you can assume he'll be doing even the basics fundamentally wrong after five years. A mixture of the old and new. I have seen this a few times. Having 9 katas in front of you all at once, building on top of previous "wrong-doings" isn't a good idea.

[kyudo]

I like your approach, Reg.

But to clarify:
The student does not switch styles. He has a wado dan grade. I checked out his former sensei (who fell ill so he can't teach anymore). He's a 7th dan kyokushinkai. And somehow he has a wado yondan grade too. Peculiar combination, if you ask me...
As far as I can tell the student does actually know the wado curriculum. But he performs it in a -let's say- generic karate way. He is aware of the concept of taisabaki, but doesn't know very well how to use it. It's as if someone took a wado body and switched the engine...

I myself switched to wado many years ago, after a 12 year stint in TKD. I never asked my sensei about gradings. I simply put on a white belt. After a few months he told me to wear a brown belt. A year later I passed my shodan test.

But this case is different because it is the same style. In theory, at least...

[andyb28]

Surely giving him a white belt would upset him and perhaps be the driving force to him either going to find another club or quitting?

Whilst I am not 15 years old, but if this happened to me and someone handed me a whitebelt, my thought process would be, I really dont think I could go through all that again ;p

[oneya]

Surely giving him a white belt would upset him and perhaps be the driving force to him either going to find another club or quitting?

Whilst I am not 15 years old, but if this happened to me and someone handed me a whitebelt, my thought process would be, I really dont think I could go through all that again ;p

Whereas I would give my right orb to go through all that again..

oneya

[oneya]

I like your approach, Reg.

But to clarify:
The student does not switch styles. He has a wado dan grade. I checked out his former sensei (who fell ill so he can't teach anymore). He's a 7th dan kyokushinkai. And somehow he has a wado yondan grade too. Peculiar combination, if you ask me...
As far as I can tell the student does actually know the wado curriculum. But he performs it in a -let's say- generic karate way. He is aware of the concept of taisabaki, but doesn't know very well how to use it. It's as if someone took a wado body and switched the engine...

I myself switched to wado many years ago, after a 12 year stint in TKD. I never asked my sensei about gradings. I simply put on a white belt. After a few months he told me to wear a brown belt. A year later I passed my shodan test.

But this case is different because it is the same style. In theory, at least...

In that case - and it depends on the interview also - it would seem to call for the same solution Igor, he needs to have some good one on one instruction to bring him up to speed and it is good experience for the seniors also.

To throw him into the dojo without this preparation would disrupt the dojo and everyone loses.

oneya

[kyudo]

In that case - and it depends on the interview also - it would seem to call for the same solution Igor, he needs to have some good one on one instruction to bring him up to speed and it is good experience for the seniors also.

To throw him into the dojo without this preparation would disrupt the dojo and everyone loses.

Yes, I'd say that is the best course of action.
Thanks.

[oneya]

mijn genoegen Igor.

oneya

[kyudo]

mijn genoegen Igor.

:-)