Kihon kumite on the opposite side

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
oneya
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by oneya »

dkc wrote:In a real situation you cant choose which side(left or right) you will be attacked from so surely its wise to practice both sides to defend or counter

Depends on what you call a real situation. A vital aspect of wado ryu practice is to ensure 'choice' by holding sente.

oneya
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dkc
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by dkc »

By a real situation I mean if some idiot comes at you at speed and you have to react to his attack you might not have time to get him in the ideal position so isnt it useful to be able to do all our techniques both left and right?
T. Kimura
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by T. Kimura »

Some people have even suggested practicing the weak side over (more than) the dominant side. I think it makes both physiological and practical sense to practice both sides--even if not equally.
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oneya
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by oneya »

dkc wrote:By a real situation I mean if some idiot comes at you at speed and you have to react to his attack you might not have time to get him in the ideal position so isnt it useful to be able to do all our techniques both left and right?
It is a limited and limiting predicate. If you are reacting then you don't have sente. If you don't have sente then something is missing from your wado practice. If you practice techniques from both left and right sides but don't understand sente then something is still missing from your wado so why restrict yourself by limiting the choices.

In my opinion wado should be practiced from both sides of the body that matter, inside and outside. which includes everything.

oneya
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Gary
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by Gary »

I have and do practice them on both sides.

To be honest though, I don't do it a lot - I don't think you need to as long as can move the same way on both sides.

Also, I think you also have to look at the Koryu origins of this sort of Kata.

Not knowing enough about SYR or TSR I can't say for certain, but from what I know of Sosuishi-ryu - many paired kata are not practiced on both sides.

As I understand it, this is (in the most part) to do with rationalisation of movement - bearing in mind that what works with no weapons needs also to work with Kodachi (kogusoku) and Uchigatana in many cases.

That's what makes these Koryu "Sogo Bujutsu"

[edit] Not saying of course that Wado is a Sogo Bujutsu in this respect.

Just my thoughts

Gary
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T. Kimura
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by T. Kimura »

That's what makes these Koryu "Sogo Bujutsu"

[edit] Not saying of course that Wado is a Sogo Bujutsu in this respect.

Just my thoughts

Gary
Wado may not be a Sogobudo in that respect; but to my way of thinking it is a karate sogobujutsu or perhaps kenpo sogobujutsu. Karate per se is the entry way to a larger Wado reality--just my own opinion.
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kyudo
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by kyudo »

dkc wrote:By a real situation I mean if some idiot comes at you at speed and you have to react to his attack you might not have time to get him in the ideal position so isnt it useful to be able to do all our techniques both left and right?
It depends on who's left and right you're talking about....
As a martial artist, I want to be able to deal with attackers that attack right sided, left sided, middle, high, low or whatever they choose to use. But I only need to be able to deal with it from one side. Because, after all, I can choose my own preferred side.
In other words: If I choose to stand right sided, I want to be able to deal with a left sided or a right sided attacker equally effective. But there's no need for me to go left sided when my attacker does. Now, if you develop a series of techniques around this concept, wouldn't that look a lot like Kihon Kumite?

Like Oneya said, you need to have sente. That's basically all there is to it. But having sente may just be the most difficult challenge. The questions is, do you need to develop your own right and left side in equal measure to do so? Based on my own experience I'd say no. Which is why practicing KK from only one side makes perfect sense to me.
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Tim49
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by Tim49 »

Re. ambidextrousness.

A couple of examples to throw into the ring:

I presume most of you are aware of the left handed thrust in Tanto Dori and the mythology surrounding it?

Also:

In medieval history there was once a Scottish clan who trained all their fighting men to be left handed, this was considered dishonourable, particularly when you look at the origins of shaking hands in Western culture, i.e. to offer your weapon hand to a potential aggressor. Also, it is said that in the turret design of European castles the spiral stairways were designed to give the right handed defenders the advantage. The spiral blocked the stronger arm of the invaders but allowed easy access for the defenders. Might be a myth, but like most apocryphal stories there is sometimes a grain of something useful.

I am also inclined to mention a particular duel in The Princess Bride.

Tim
Tim49
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by Tim49 »

I suppose I should have given a link to the duel in Princess Bride
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6dgtBU6Gs

All action, high camp.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Tim
oneya
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Re: Kihon kumite on the opposite side

Post by oneya »

Tim49 wrote:I suppose I should have given a link to the duel in Princess Bride
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6dgtBU6Gs

All action, high camp.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

Tim

Oh deary me... which one is the Princess then.?? Back when a few of you fellas were in thought form there was a guy who dressed in tights too. His name was Errol Flynn and a true swordsman in every sense of the word and he could do for the villainous Guy of Gisbourne in half the time it takes these two ladies to get their make up on...


BTW, ambidextrous is one thing but did you know Gusei28 is amphibious too..

oneya
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