Go Kan Ryu
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:29 pm
- Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Go Kan Ryu
This is just a simple question; what on Earth is it?
I am just asking as tonight when I was training with my Karate society (by myself with my Sempai because no one else showed up again, lazy kohai) we had this guy show up who asked to train with us. He claimed to do this thing called Go Kan Ryu (Rape/hard hall/hard hard school?) and at first I thought it must be a Goju off shoot.
He knew Saifa but not Gekisai Ichi or Ni, and the rendition of taigyoku he did looked nothing like the Shotokan or Shotokai versions I have seen. Plus apparentely they have both Hangetsu and Seisan, but Hangetsu is simply the Nakamura Shotokan version of Seisan and the Seisan he did didn't look convincing enough for me to call it Goju.
Apparentely the style is from Australia and the style does well in so called National all style tournaments. I've never heard of it; and I can't make heads nor tail about it's odd mix of Shotokan and Goju Ryu.
I have checked their site; and the guys claim looks legitimate but the whole site is jingoistic at best. Can any one give me an honest appraisal of Go Kan Ryu before I accept or reject this guy into or from my karate society?
By Karate society I mean a University society, it's just a group of us who do karate who train together when ever we don't have lessons at our own clubs. I am the official president so I am in charge of nay or yay when it comes to new members. Thanks in advance.
I am just asking as tonight when I was training with my Karate society (by myself with my Sempai because no one else showed up again, lazy kohai) we had this guy show up who asked to train with us. He claimed to do this thing called Go Kan Ryu (Rape/hard hall/hard hard school?) and at first I thought it must be a Goju off shoot.
He knew Saifa but not Gekisai Ichi or Ni, and the rendition of taigyoku he did looked nothing like the Shotokan or Shotokai versions I have seen. Plus apparentely they have both Hangetsu and Seisan, but Hangetsu is simply the Nakamura Shotokan version of Seisan and the Seisan he did didn't look convincing enough for me to call it Goju.
Apparentely the style is from Australia and the style does well in so called National all style tournaments. I've never heard of it; and I can't make heads nor tail about it's odd mix of Shotokan and Goju Ryu.
I have checked their site; and the guys claim looks legitimate but the whole site is jingoistic at best. Can any one give me an honest appraisal of Go Kan Ryu before I accept or reject this guy into or from my karate society?
By Karate society I mean a University society, it's just a group of us who do karate who train together when ever we don't have lessons at our own clubs. I am the official president so I am in charge of nay or yay when it comes to new members. Thanks in advance.
R. Keith Williams
Re: Go Kan Ryu
Gokanryu = Australian based franchise; it has been spreading round like a fungus. A bit of a racket really, once members have been training a while they are encouraged to go door to door to get people to sign up to a package. Once they have enough sales under their belt they can start moving up the tree, people of only a few months training can become instructors, a kind of licenced Sensei, this then spreads more satellite Dojos. Large amounts of money change hands much of it goes flying back to Australia. The Australians seem to have bought in to it, but the rest of the world distrusts door knockers and pyramid schemes.Wado heretic wrote:This is just a simple question; what on Earth is it?
I am just asking as tonight when I was training with my Karate society (by myself with my Sempai because no one else showed up again, lazy kohai) we had this guy show up who asked to train with us. He claimed to do this thing called Go Kan Ryu (Rape/hard hall/hard hard school?) and at first I thought it must be a Goju off shoot.
He knew Saifa but not Gekisai Ichi or Ni, and the rendition of taigyoku he did looked nothing like the Shotokan or Shotokai versions I have seen. Plus apparentely they have both Hangetsu and Seisan, but Hangetsu is simply the Nakamura Shotokan version of Seisan and the Seisan he did didn't look convincing enough for me to call it Goju.
Apparentely the style is from Australia and the style does well in so called National all style tournaments. I've never heard of it; and I can't make heads nor tail about it's odd mix of Shotokan and Goju Ryu.
I have checked their site; and the guys claim looks legitimate but the whole site is jingoistic at best. Can any one give me an honest appraisal of Go Kan Ryu before I accept or reject this guy into or from my karate society?
By Karate society I mean a University society, it's just a group of us who do karate who train together when ever we don't have lessons at our own clubs. I am the official president so I am in charge of nay or yay when it comes to new members. Thanks in advance.
Stylistically, a chop together of Shotokan and Goju.
And you are right, Gokan does mean rape or sexual assault in Japanese.
Tim
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:29 pm
- Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Re: Go Kan Ryu
Okay; thanks for the information. I have asked him to bring in his licence book and certifcation up to now for insurance purposes anyway; I shall probably offer him a trial run and warn him that if he's not up to scratch or not contributing enough he will be asked to leave. If he's taken part in any of that said business I shant accept him at all; I'd rather not have the society marred as being associated with a business venture.
I would refuse him on the hybrid style thing; but our society charter does say as long as your style has a lineage from the following styles you can join;
Shōtōkan-ryū/Shōtōkai
Shitō-ryū
Gōjū-ryū/Gōjū-kai
Wadō-ryū
Shindō jinen-ryū
Kushin-ryū
Shōrin-ryū
Uechi-ryū
Isshin-ryū
Chitō-ryū
Kyokushin kaikan
Budōkan
Yui Shin Kai
Yoseikan
I suppose I have become trapped due to the comprehensive nature of my own list. While on it; does anyone feel it could be shortened or even made larger in scope to be fairer? I am trying to ensure we remain a traditional karate society while maintaining a fair charter.
I would refuse him on the hybrid style thing; but our society charter does say as long as your style has a lineage from the following styles you can join;
Shōtōkan-ryū/Shōtōkai
Shitō-ryū
Gōjū-ryū/Gōjū-kai
Wadō-ryū
Shindō jinen-ryū
Kushin-ryū
Shōrin-ryū
Uechi-ryū
Isshin-ryū
Chitō-ryū
Kyokushin kaikan
Budōkan
Yui Shin Kai
Yoseikan
I suppose I have become trapped due to the comprehensive nature of my own list. While on it; does anyone feel it could be shortened or even made larger in scope to be fairer? I am trying to ensure we remain a traditional karate society while maintaining a fair charter.
R. Keith Williams
Re: Go Kan Ryu
Go Kan Ryu = Kan Go Roo
shep
shep
Re: Go Kan Ryu
.
Gokanryu is karate at its worst while being pyramid selling at is best. Enough people have been duped for it to look like a genuine business but the end product bears little or no resemblance to any traditional Japanese or Okinawan martial except in wearing the dogi.
Yesterday I was in a restaurant with an orchid grower and he stopped to check a potted version of a plant and remarked "from a distance that looks quite good but it is only a plastic replica' Go Kan Ryu is like this.
Tim is right: the money flies back to South Australia where the head honcho flies around now in his own helicopter and the Pommes are no wiser.. Ah well.
oneya
Gokanryu is karate at its worst while being pyramid selling at is best. Enough people have been duped for it to look like a genuine business but the end product bears little or no resemblance to any traditional Japanese or Okinawan martial except in wearing the dogi.
Yesterday I was in a restaurant with an orchid grower and he stopped to check a potted version of a plant and remarked "from a distance that looks quite good but it is only a plastic replica' Go Kan Ryu is like this.
Tim is right: the money flies back to South Australia where the head honcho flies around now in his own helicopter and the Pommes are no wiser.. Ah well.
oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.
http://www.sannoya.com
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.
http://www.sannoya.com
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:29 pm
- Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Re: Go Kan Ryu
I have given him the trial run but have demanded he wear his actual belt, 4th kyu, and not the black and white thing he introduced himself in. I have also told him I am holding him to the promise that he hasn't taken part in any door to door efforts nor is teaching while being under qualified. If he breaks this and any of the members of the society finds out he is automatically being booted through the door.
Thank you for the information. I am actually rather shocked to learn something like this has been going on, it's opened my eyes to the real dangers of the unchecked McDojo. I knew of chain MMA gyms but this one is a bit more serious then that.
Thank you for the information. I am actually rather shocked to learn something like this has been going on, it's opened my eyes to the real dangers of the unchecked McDojo. I knew of chain MMA gyms but this one is a bit more serious then that.
R. Keith Williams
Re: Go Kan Ryu
Wado heretic wrote:I have given him the trial run but have demanded he wear his actual belt, 4th kyu, and not the black and white thing he introduced himself in. I have also told him I am holding him to the promise that he hasn't taken part in any door to door efforts nor is teaching while being under qualified. If he breaks this and any of the members of the society finds out he is automatically being booted through the door.
Thank you for the information. I am actually rather shocked to learn something like this has been going on, it's opened my eyes to the real dangers of the unchecked McDojo. I knew of chain MMA gyms but this one is a bit more serious then that.
Is he a 4th kyu in wado ryu..?
oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.
http://www.sannoya.com
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.
http://www.sannoya.com
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:29 pm
- Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Re: Go Kan Ryu
No; in Go Kan Ryu.
We are a karate society meaning this; as long as you have some grade in traditional karate and are insured properly you can come along and train. We meet up twice a week at the moment for 2 hours at a time with it generally working this way; we all do Kihon together with the dan grades taking turns to lead. The depending on if it's our Kata or Kumite session; we break up into our smaller style specific groups to work on our own stuff, or we just do free sparring or one of the dan grades leads us through one of the more interesting kata of their system.
Just a way for us to get extra training in when our own clubs aren't open; plus it's a cheaper way for us to see other styles of Karate without travelling or paying out lots of money for a course or at another club. We are hoping to put together a competition team and maybe even invite some instructors for seminars if we can get the funding together.
We are a karate society meaning this; as long as you have some grade in traditional karate and are insured properly you can come along and train. We meet up twice a week at the moment for 2 hours at a time with it generally working this way; we all do Kihon together with the dan grades taking turns to lead. The depending on if it's our Kata or Kumite session; we break up into our smaller style specific groups to work on our own stuff, or we just do free sparring or one of the dan grades leads us through one of the more interesting kata of their system.
Just a way for us to get extra training in when our own clubs aren't open; plus it's a cheaper way for us to see other styles of Karate without travelling or paying out lots of money for a course or at another club. We are hoping to put together a competition team and maybe even invite some instructors for seminars if we can get the funding together.
R. Keith Williams
Re: Go Kan Ryu
Talking of GKR it reminds me of a conversation I had with some friends of mine quite a few years ago now . At this time I hadnt even heard of GKR. Their son had finished uni and was looking for a job at the time. They knew my karate background. The conversation went something like this:-
Them: Jims got a new job
Me: Great. Doing what?
Them: Karate Instructor
Me: Karate Instructor? I didnt know Jim did karate, how longs he been doing that for?
Them: He doesnt do it yet. But this company trains you up to black belt so that you can run your own club.
Me: I dont understand, It takes years to gain enough knowledge to know your own karate let alone teach.
How long is the training for?
Them: I dont know, I think he learns on the job. He has to recruit people for his club thats how he earns his money.
Me: How did he get that job?
Them: It was advertsed in the job centre.
I told them it sounded well dodgy and he should stear well clear. I hadnt even heard of GKR at the time. He never did start his career as a professional Sensei.
But even today these jobs are advertised in job centres and often in local papers.
If your new guy is trying to break away from GKR to do some serious karate then he should be congratulated and encouraged. But I would be wary of the validity of his grade. If he intends staying maybe he should start from scratch IMHO.
I've actually met two other people over the years who do it and I did my best to tell them the truth as I see it. But unfortunately they love it and my words fell on deaf ears.
shep
Them: Jims got a new job
Me: Great. Doing what?
Them: Karate Instructor
Me: Karate Instructor? I didnt know Jim did karate, how longs he been doing that for?
Them: He doesnt do it yet. But this company trains you up to black belt so that you can run your own club.
Me: I dont understand, It takes years to gain enough knowledge to know your own karate let alone teach.
How long is the training for?
Them: I dont know, I think he learns on the job. He has to recruit people for his club thats how he earns his money.
Me: How did he get that job?
Them: It was advertsed in the job centre.
I told them it sounded well dodgy and he should stear well clear. I hadnt even heard of GKR at the time. He never did start his career as a professional Sensei.
But even today these jobs are advertised in job centres and often in local papers.
If your new guy is trying to break away from GKR to do some serious karate then he should be congratulated and encouraged. But I would be wary of the validity of his grade. If he intends staying maybe he should start from scratch IMHO.
I've actually met two other people over the years who do it and I did my best to tell them the truth as I see it. But unfortunately they love it and my words fell on deaf ears.
shep
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- Posts: 94
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:29 pm
- Location: United Kingdom, England, Shropshire
Re: Go Kan Ryu
I have put him into our Goju sub group as GKR seems to use mostly Goju imitation kata. I am hoping being surrounded by people doing the same kata as him, but properly, will open his eyes. I can say he's definetely enthusiastic about his karate so I am hoping we can get him off the nonsense. When I explained that Hangetsu is basically Shotokan's version of Seisan and that Naihanchi and Sanchin are the core kata of karate, which GKR lacks apparentely, it seems to have set the cogs turning.
Again to hear it's being advertised as an occupation is disturbing and strange to say the least.
It can be an enviroment thing really I find. If they constantly have the 'reality' of what they are doing as being valid karate; that is the reality they shall elect to believe. Only way to change that is to have them exposed to a much different enviroment. As I have said else where before; when you put in a lot of money and time and recieve recognition for it, it really doesn't matter whether others outside say about it, as long as that internal pattern continues uninterupted.
Case in point; beside training I help to teach twice a week. Now me and the main instructor are okay but not the best, or even among the great, and if we are honest we can only take a person so far. Yet when I admit that to a student whose as far as I can help them go and try and point them in the direction of instructors that can take them further; they give this look of almost abject confusion or horror as if I have just revealed that a close relative of their's has died. I believe this to be the wizard of Oz effect; they project something on the instructor and to have it deconstructed is world changing because they have built their martial arts world around it. Some deal with it, some just give up and others just refuse to listen and carry on the same way. I believe we can probably blame this effect for the McDojo and such things as GKR; sadly can we claim that the heirachical culture of the Kyu/Dan system doesn't have some part to play in this?
Again to hear it's being advertised as an occupation is disturbing and strange to say the least.
It can be an enviroment thing really I find. If they constantly have the 'reality' of what they are doing as being valid karate; that is the reality they shall elect to believe. Only way to change that is to have them exposed to a much different enviroment. As I have said else where before; when you put in a lot of money and time and recieve recognition for it, it really doesn't matter whether others outside say about it, as long as that internal pattern continues uninterupted.
Case in point; beside training I help to teach twice a week. Now me and the main instructor are okay but not the best, or even among the great, and if we are honest we can only take a person so far. Yet when I admit that to a student whose as far as I can help them go and try and point them in the direction of instructors that can take them further; they give this look of almost abject confusion or horror as if I have just revealed that a close relative of their's has died. I believe this to be the wizard of Oz effect; they project something on the instructor and to have it deconstructed is world changing because they have built their martial arts world around it. Some deal with it, some just give up and others just refuse to listen and carry on the same way. I believe we can probably blame this effect for the McDojo and such things as GKR; sadly can we claim that the heirachical culture of the Kyu/Dan system doesn't have some part to play in this?
R. Keith Williams