Almost but not quite there wado heretic, from my point of view your assumptions are flawed when you predicate your argument on karate per se and equate the wado ryu with Okinawan karate. A few more years of practice and study to a thinking man will perhaps reveal ‘Okinawan karate’ as such, to be an aspect of wado ryu - of which the indisputable wado ryu authorities will affirm - represents a minor addition of just a pinch of condiments to the actual banquet of wado ryu tabled before us.Tim49 wrote:Wado Heretic,Wado heretic wrote:One can always mention the worst swear word a wado practitioner can use: bunkai. Defences against what you are talking about Acer exist in kata, or so the application ethusiasts claim. Personally I am not entirely convinced, however applications are practiced in Okinawa and are a traditional part of Naha te schools. If you want to add the appropriate drills just look at the materials out there on bunkai. I'd suggest starting with the work of Iain Abernathy as his karate is essentially bunkai driven wado.
End of the day there is only good or bad Karate. The wado ryu syllabus is just one of many mediums through which to explore Karate. If it doesn't work for you, then look for another branch on the tree. Ohtsuka Hironori established a syllabus based on his own interpretation of the karate he learned off Funakoshi; and explored further with Mabuni, Motobu, Konishi and Ueshiba. Personally; I feel his knowledge of the kata was superficial and seen through Japanese eyes, and that what he eventually produced was an effort to make Karate fit a Honshu Bujutsu mindset and structure. Yet, I enjoy Wado and feel it has his own virtues that make up for it's lack of closeness to the original, or 'real' depending on your mindset, Karate of the RyuKyu islands. Though having dabbled in Shorin Ryu, I can say Wado is shockingly close to original karate, though differing in several critical ways, when compared to Shotokan and other Japanese Karate traditions.
Back to the original point though; all karateka are in danger of trying to wear three hats in one, the traditionalist, the sportsman and streetfighter. Thus we are left with the question; do we wear all three hats or try and just wear one?
The traditionalist, to simplify it, would be archetypical of the person who simply trains as he was taught and teaches as he was taught. Essentially keeping to the Kata and the Kumite as was passed down to them. Now a traditionalist need not be a dogmatist, many traditional martial artists have been innovators. The point is; these are the kind of people who try to keep their karate as their karate has always been.
The sportsman is basically those who are in karate as a sport, to win competitions. Now if you want to win competitions, what is the best choice? Kumite or Kata, he who chases two hares will rarely catch one after all. So now you get to a point where if you are attempting to do Wado, you either just pay lip service to the kata but pretty much focus on kumite, or you focus on making your kata competition fit in which way they may no longer reflect traditional wado to the detriment of your fighting ability. Basically, Karate that has become kick boxing or aerobic dancing in a gi. The most modern example of this issue is Kudo, which is basically MMA in a gi.
Finally, the streetfighter, the one focused purely on self defence. My question would be this; how many fights have you been in that have threatened your life? Unless you are a bouncer or some other individual invovled in regular physical confrontations, you will rarely be in any more than one fight in your life, and that one fight has usually been dealt with by high school. If you are looking for self defence on the quick; then Krav Maga or some other form of combatives which actually focuses on modern day self defence issues is probably a better choice.
That is not to say karate doesn't work in self defence, it has for me. Then again I am 6'3 amatuer power lifter, and I could defend myself well enough before starting karate. My big point is, learning self defence from karate, requires deep and dedicated study and all the componants for effective self defence are in front of you. In the Kata and in the Kumite devised by Ohtsuka. Now Acer you mention developing drills dealing with other attacks beside karate attacks. Why not do so and see how it turns out? Why does it have to be part of the Wado syllabus for you to develop and practice such drills. I get your original point, why doesn't wado do it as a whole. I don't know but I suspect it's because the current masters are only 3rd generation, the memory of the founder remains alive and with us. Why fix something that isn't broken, and if it's new how can it be broken already?
Final point, it's the shark and tiger arguement. Karate hasn't been shown to work in the ring so we have this doubt that it's effective in a real fight. Well to me there is one event I have etched in my mind that sums it up to me. I was in a bar with my friend who does BJJ and could beat me any day in the ring. I shant go into excessive detail but we both ended up in a fight with a group of drunken idiots. My friend took the guy who started on him to the ground with a tackle without much effort, and I kicked my agressor in the knee and elbowed him in the face. End of the night, I had a bruised elbow and my friend had a gash wound in the head and was hospitalised for a week from being bottled while he was wrestling with the guy. My point being, it's the tactic you use, not the techniques and no number of drills would have helped that night. I used a basic karate tactic, it worked, my friend used a basic BJJ tactic and ended up in the hospital. It's as much the fighter as the system and what is in it.
Excellent post, well put, well argued.
Just one point though; Iain Abernethy is not doing Wado.
He’s backed away from statements he made earlier, which seemed to suggest that he was revealing the hidden ‘Bunkai’ of Wado and now is saying essentially that the stuff he does is his own invention. Which is fair enough, it’s an open marketplace.
Tim
So,just touching on a few points and I laud Tim’s timely point on Mr Abernethy’s retraction of teaching ‘wado ryu’ bunkai to teaching his own bunkai inventions, but when you mention swear words I would add: it is not the use of analysis (bunkai) that makes the traditionalist cringe but the teaching of the dead themes of any fait accompli that runs counter to the preferred analysis (Kaisetsu) and ohyo concept that reflects a wado ryu teaching. The analysis or ‘kaisetsu’ is more a live process of demonstrating the ‘life spirit’ in the actual moment of its presentation. This being a requirement for wado ryu in the same way that Ohtsuka meijin’s preference for the kanji 形 over 型 being used for wado ryu kata alludes to its living spirit.
Your comment “Personally; I feel his knowledge of the kata was superficial and seen through Japanese eyes, and that what he eventually produced was an effort to make Karate fit a Honshu Bujutsu mindset and structure”
is often the flawed reasoning of the unknowing or early practitioner who are missing the essence of kaisetsu’s analysis and commentary together with Ohtuka meijin’s real motive and intent of completely revising the structure and purpose of Okinawan kata to suit its wado role as the apparatus for teaching, understanding and polishing the essentials of wado movement, posture and balance. He selected nine interconnected kata for this purpose while the “bunkai” became the incremental provinces of kihon gumite, ohyo gumite and kumite gata, which, as even blind Freddie can see, occupies a wider spectrum of import than just the much narrower bunkai.
If we can accept that his reasoning was to create a ‘new’ Japanese martial art in much the way of Kano of Judo and Ueshiba of Aikido it is easier to see Ohtsuka meijin’s aim was to bring wado ryu into its own moment in Japan’s martial history, so rather than be too limited or hampered by the history of Japan’s southern agrarian neighbour he opted for his own koryu lineage and Japan’s own warrior experience to be the key and cornerstones of wado ryu. I believe the koryu principles of movement and fundamental teachings to bear this out once one is beyond the introduction phase. It is a matter of prisms: so given the benefit of some thought: wado ryu with its extensive koryu history and lineage presents more as a paradigm shift in martial development, rather than a poor relation’s jigsaw lacking a few missing bits of a neighbouring system of self defense from a beleaguered agrarian community.
oneya