Shiomitsu Demo Defending Mawashigeri

[WadoAJ]

Hi Andy, Good point, did you notice that Shiomitsu steps on the foot of his opponent in the process of the throw? I wondered if that was intentional, or by accident.

I must admit, I never noticed that first time around. Interestingly, he does seem to look down, as if looking for the foot?

I don't think anyone of his level needs to look for the foot. It is a matter of feeling and sensing the (presence of an) opponent. This is called kiai. Kihon gumite is a matter of maai and kiai. On a lower level, at some point after training for a while you just know how long your arm or leg is.

Although it is not clear to see, I can imagine that it is a movement as a matter of nagasu (* or a relaxed posture) and eventually following the opponent as he went down. However, that remains a guess as I have never seen Shiomitsu sensei teach.

* depending on posture you do not turn your face straight towards the opponent because this causes strain. You could watch from the corner of your eye. And then there is peripheral vision.

AJ

[WadoAJ]

Momentum is in part, the mass of a object. It is in part a function of speed, and weight upon impact. The smaller person needs to move faster to equal the mass of a bigger person. However in this case, I was thinking of Shiomitsu's "apparent" mass, as he gave me the feeling of having enormous momentum, perhaps even more then is scientifically accurate.

my definition:

Another word to use instead of impact or power could be momentum. Momentum refers to the timing and to the actual moment in time when transferring your energy. It also refers to the amount of impact you can deliver and the duration of holding on to that impact. The more focused the momentum, the more effective it becomes while simultaneously the amount of energy needed to produce it decreases. In other words, the better your momentum, the less energy is wasted and the more effective and economic your technique becomes.

AJ

[honoluludesktop]

Also keep in mind that this is a demonstration. While moving, Shiomitsu often looks, and speaks to the audience of adults standing behind the camera. Accordingly his attention is not completely focused on the technique. Indeed, a interactive demonstration may be unlike what Ohtsuka speaks of when doing Kunite-Kata.

Occasionally I'm told, by my second son who demonstrates as my partner, that I had made a mistake during the demonstration. While demonstrating, I do part of "Kumite-Kata" (free fighting form), but I don't rehearse with him. Consequently I make a mistake once in a while, however I hardly realise it and I finish that performance smoothly without any failures or even incongruities. Sometimes I can remember those mistakes faintly when I've been told. When I'm performing I always try to think that it is not just showing my performance, but is it is really fighting. So I can make my performance adapt itself to any case so smoothly, and I can perform without any worldly thoughts. But involuntarily I still can't perform in such a way once in a while.

In my own experience, when drilling against random combinations, the only way I am able to react effectively is by maintaining visual reaction distance. I can only speculate which senses are useful between that, and touch. My father who was a accomplished judoka once told me that he could hear (sense) his opponent's breath.

[WadoAJ]

Also keep in mind that this is a demonstration. While moving, Shiomitsu often looks, and speaks to the audience of adults standing behind the camera. Accordingly his attention is not completely focused on the technique. Indeed, a interactive demonstration may be unlike what Ohtsuka speaks of when doing Kunite-Kata.
.

I had more but I erased it. It was indeed about how he would teach. i wrote something like there is a difference between teaching and actual demonstration or fighting.
AJ

[honoluludesktop]

AJ, if you mean that the greater the momentum (as generated by Ten-i, Ten-tai, and Ten-gi), the more efficient the technique, I believe that you have phrased it very nicely.

Btw: I like to use .gif animation to study movement because it allows looking at individual frames, and still have a sense of motion. The Shiomitsu .gif frames are 1/5th second apart. The raw images are from a video recorder. I also use a .gif viewer that allows me to pause each frame. The down side to this kind of study, is as you pointed out, the possibility of being preoccupied with detail that may be meaningless, especially when there is only one example of the technique being executed.

[WadoAJ]

AJ, if you mean that the greater the momentum (as generated by Ten-i, Ten-tai, and Ten-gi), the more efficient the technique, I believe that you have phrased it very nicely.
.

Thanks, thats exactly what I mean.

AJ

[oneya]

Very nice photo. The shuto demonstrates Suzuki's aggressive application in contrast to Shiomitsu's embrace.

Hi DT

I have to question this use of 'aggressive application' you've laid on Suzuki sensei, Aggressive behavior suggests an element of emotion implicit in his behaviour which simply isn't there. If you have trained with him and think you can feel aggression perhaps you are mis-reading him. If you haven't trained with him then perhaps you should.

Many of these top sensei from that period are more like artists putting a few final brush strokes to their canvas. No wasted motion or flailing arms, they are just craftsman like and usually playing ‘with’ the opposition. Emotion would be an antithetical element in their wado.

oneya

[WadoAJ]

Very nice photo. The shuto demonstrates Suzuki's aggressive application in contrast to Shiomitsu's embrace.

Hi DT

I have to question this use of 'aggressive application' you've laid on Suzuki sensei, Aggressive behavior suggests an element of emotion implicit in his behaviour which simply isn't there. If you have trained with him and think you can feel aggression perhaps you are mis-reading him. If you haven't trained with him then perhaps you should.

Many of these top sensei from that period are more like artists putting a few final brush strokes to their canvas. No wasted motion or flailing arms, they are just craftsman like and usually playing ‘with’ the opposition. Emotion would be an antithetical element in their wado.

oneya

Hi Oneya,

I was actually thinking about DT's mention of aggressive, as I believe we already discussed this on the old AKF. I will look it up: found it!

Posted: Aug 28 2010, 04:35 PM

QUOTE (ippon @ Aug 28 2010, 04:29 PM)
The way we practiced "ippons" is what sold me on Japanese martial arts, at least where I started my training. Aggressive attacks and aggressive defense.

I'm having difficulty following your reasoning. There is no aggression in karate. Employing the strength of your spirit is good, being driven by emotion on the other hand?

AJ

for those interested: http://www.all-karate.com/forums/index. ... aggressive

AJ

[Gary]

...did you notice that Shiomitsu steps on the foot of his opponent in the process of the throw? I wondered if that was intentional, or by accident.

I'd say it was intentional. It features quite a bit in the Koryu group I practice with anyway.

At first I thought it was a mistake, but actually it is part of the technique, and very nasty when applied correctly.

Gary

[oneya]

...did you notice that Shiomitsu steps on the foot of his opponent in the process of the throw? I wondered if that was intentional, or by accident.

I'd say it was intentional. It features quite a bit in the Koryu group I practice with anyway.

At first I thought it was a mistake, but actually it is part of the technique, and very nasty when applied correctly.

Gary

Why would it be a mistake Gary when we practice this in Pinan kata.?

oneya