Ura Waza

[oneya]

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Ah yes, if one could only have the heart and tenacity to study like this - and then add the component of someone demanding your life. I think this may come close to what Wado ryu training should be about..

oneya

[wadoka]

Wado is "whole of life". It is fine to ebb and flow, rise and fall, it is all OK. It gives me a heck of a lot more than a sweaty gi and bruises.

Just off to the local court to take "Sen". Already done Go no Sen, did a bit of Sen Sen no Sen this week. Today it is Sen. Easy when you know how.

[kyudo]

Each movement would have to include its principle or it will just be empty form.

I think I told this before somewhere, but...
I once had a student who was a professional ballet dancer. She learned each new kata in no time. I would only take her a few hours to perform a new kata at the same level of (seeming) proficiency as other students practicing for months or years. However, her technique was 'empty'. Her tsuki couldn't hurt a fly. Her gamea could be knocked over easily. In fact, her kata was a most impressive imitation of 'real' kata. She was amazing, you had to see it to believe it. Trouble was, she really thought she had mastered the kata after copying the exact moves. But it was dancing, not karate. She would have made a great actress in a kung-fu movie though...

[honoluludesktop]

......I once had a student who was a professional ballet dancer..............

If she had no principle, I suspect that J. d'Amboise would not have regarded her ballet to highly. For him dance was life. No pampered childhood. He grew up in the NY streets, played in its abandoned buildings, and survived the depression.

[claas]

Hi HDT,

When I started this line of questioning, I was aware that omote/ura translates to front/back, etc. I was wondering if the "urawaza kata" posted at the top might be a "thing", something different from kihon kumite kata (which I assumed was an example of omotewaza kata). I expected someone to say that this is urawaza kata one because..........; this is urawaza kata two because........., etc.

Well, you can immediately tell that the sequences are different than in the omote kihon kumite, can't you. I myself offered some alternatives as to how for example those might be. You just take the points and look again. Also visualize yourself performing or train with someone who knows how to attack properly.

When you are on the outside the threats and places to attack are very much different than on the inside, so the study for a similar technical manoeuvre becomes a little different.

I think you expect a little too much from the people here. Of course no one has to share anything. I myself try to share as much as I can, but pretty much never repeat any of my senseis sayings, because I do not feel I have the right to. So it always is something that is very generally known or my own thoughts about what I have learned. The stuff in between, the fingers pointing at the moon, you have to hear or feel at their dojos. Because they are not my fingers. I guess I am not the only one thinking somewhat like this here.

The point is, discussion about Wado is, and perhaps has to be, very careful from time to time, while sometimes some things can be simply said out straight. At those times, why not say it?
The important stuff however is a process of analyzing, training and learning.

I would guess the numbering is not important but of course I can't be sure. Any ideas, anyone?

I am lead to believe, by the responses I received here, that the kata above may have no special distinction as "urawaza". Perhaps they are not part of a fixed syllabus, but something that Ohtsuka created from time to time. I am also lead to believe that these kata may be studied by changing stances, etc., and elsewhere, it's suggested that I leave this forum. Initially, I thought that someone would tell me that Ohtsuka called this a urawaza kata because..........

One key would be to analyze how Kihon kumite is a complete system.
But then it has to be something else than an empty pair dance.

Also there is one huge difference on the surface level to the ten omote Kihon kumite that I hope you notice. By surface, I mean even someone not practicing any martial arts would notice this.

I think this is an interesting topic you have started. I also feel there is nothing wrong with this, so I cannot figure out any motives for suggesting that you leave this forum.

[honoluludesktop]

Hi Claas, I thought this matter was settled, but clearly its not. Thanks for trying. It seems that I am unable to phrase my question in a manner that is understood, or I failed to understsnd the answers provided. I will put more thought into this.

[claas]

Tim49, Is that covered in the tape of Ohtsuka, and his son? If so, I will have to dust off my VHS player. If not, can you post a link? Please feel free to embellish what I have missed.

Perhaps this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bksq4EP1JEw

[shep]

Also found this description on another website. I'm not saying its a good one or a bad one, it could be described however as very over simplified

ura waza - inner or subtle way; the essential nuance that makes a martial system or technique work properly

Something to ponder over if you wish

shep