omote, ura and henka

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
kyudo
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omote, ura and henka

Post by kyudo »

The interesting recent idori discussion invoked some questions about terminology. Let's see if I got this straight:

Omote
The outer shape of the kata. The form of the kata as thought to beginners.

Ura
The principles underlying the omote of the kata.

Henka
Omote variations. The ura remains unchanged, else it becomes another kata.

Is that about right?

If so, I wonder: are omote, ura and henka related to su-ha-ri? I could imagine the following links: In 'su', the omote is studied. In 'ha' understanding sinks in with experience and the ura is appreciated. Only in 'ri' new henka are created.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Igor Asselbergs
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Gusei21
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by Gusei21 »

Kyudo,

What is this obsession with Shuhari? lol
I never actively think about the ha and the ri.
Too busy trying to figure out the Shu...and that is good enough for most of us.

Omote should not be labeled as the playground for beginners.
Omote is the outer form of the kata and many of the kata are complicated.
It takes several years to learn the omote well. And the omote can be done at many different levels.
You can do the omote like a beginner. You can do the omote utilizing higher forms of skill.

Henka are just variations. Some are simple. Others can be advanced.
Think Wishbone offense with the options (football) or the Triangle offense (basketball) with all of its options off the standard play.
Bob Nash
oneya
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by oneya »

I don’t know much about wishbones or triangles in ‘defence’ but this ‘shu ha ri’ concept goes much deeper than the three aspects of kata. All three of which can all be practised for instance, whereas no part of Shu Ha Ri can be said to be practised except in the abstract so any attempt at using this to define kata is next to meaningless. Shu Ha Ri is more the indefinable measure of a man or woman’s stages in the life of a commitment to an art form of Japanese origin, martial arts koryu being one but Chado, bonzai and ikebana are said to be others.

As I understand it: The concept is much like the honorific title of Sensei or Hanshi in that it may be used in reference to someone but never used in a subjective description or in reference to one’s self.

Kyudo, as for the descriptions of kata.

The underlying principles of wado ryu kata are intrinsic in all the wado omote, ura and henka and the understanding of the nature of this integrity will be the prime consideration in the matter of omote kata transmission. Ura and henka follow on from this as a matter of course in the study of kata. One’s understanding of this process can take a lifetime as Gusei21 says: “some are complicated”.

Oneya.
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
kyudo
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by kyudo »

Thanks for the enlightening comments...
Gusei21 wrote: What is this obsession with Shuhari? lol
Who's obsessed? I went to a seminar about software development the other day. And then the guy in charge started explaining about shuhari. He did it fairly well too. Till then I had never associated shuhari with software development. Another lesson learned...
Igor Asselbergs
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wadoka
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by wadoka »

Oh no, you will be going to MBA courses and they will bring Sun Tsu's Art of War out.
kyudo
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by kyudo »

wadoka wrote:Oh no, you will be going to MBA courses and they will bring Sun Tsu's Art of War out.
What's next? A dance class featuring kumite?
Igor Asselbergs
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Gusei21
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by Gusei21 »

Kyudo,

You asked me a similar question the last time we were together...lol..and what did I say then?

Software development and Shuhari? My boss would go off the deep end....They want us shuing....something about coding standards and design patterns.. :)

Sun Tzu? Whatever happened to Gorin no sho? (the book of 5 rings)
Bob Nash
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by wadoka »

I forgot to put my samurai aura on before hitting the keyboard.
oneya
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by oneya »

kyudo wrote:
wadoka wrote:Oh no, you will be going to MBA courses and they will bring Sun Tsu's Art of War out.
What's next? A dance class featuring kumite?
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krxYkRkJ ... re=related

oneya
Reg Kear.
Wado Kokusai San no Ya.

http://www.sannoya.com
monkey mind
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Re: omote, ura and henka

Post by monkey mind »

oneya wrote:
kyudo wrote:
wadoka wrote:Oh no, you will be going to MBA courses and they will bring Sun Tsu's Art of War out.
What's next? A dance class featuring kumite?
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krxYkRkJ ... re=related

oneya
I trained in the Kombatan system for a couple years & had the pleaseure of attending two seminars with GM Presas. He definitely has smooth moves.
Paul Cooper
JKI Wadokai Chiang Mai
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