omote, ura and henka

[oneya]

I trained in the Kombatan system for a couple years & had the pleaseure of attending two seminars with GM Presas. He definitely has smooth moves.

Hi MM, kombatan is quite a remove from wado ryu so what made you switch..?

oneya

[wadoka]

I know a few people that have done or doing escrima type arts alongside their Wado training.

[oneya]

I know a few people that have done or doing escrima type arts alongside their Wado training.

Ah, so the dance routine would be their omote kata - if they have such a thing...?

oneya

[wadoka]

With regards the dance, then no I don't think any of them do that. They do practice in that rhythmic timing and exchanges as seen in the other parts of the footage.

[Gusei21]

http://sites.google.com/site/megakolyan/Home

http://www.sakuratakekan.org/escuelas/m ... ingles.htm

Toshihiro Oshiro, an Okinawan Karate master has always stated that Okinawan karate is in Okinawan dance.
His wife Tomoko is a master of Okinawan dance. He would tell me that her dance was a lot harder to do than any kata he performed.

I can't dance...so perhaps that is what is holding back my karate...

[oneya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c1ByVyN ... r_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vitxPuC7 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_hIouOi ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5emNyKSi ... re=related

[monkey mind]

Hi MM, kombatan is quite a remove from wado ryu so what made you switch..?
oneya

This thread seems to be pretty well sidetracked anyway, so...

From my late teens to my late thirties I moved around every 2 or 3 years. Most of the time I was in smallish, out of the way places and so I had to pursue my martial interests according to what was available. And in doing so, I usually paid more attention to the qualities of the teachers I encountered rather than the qualities of their chosen art. Along the way I gained experience in a wide range of arts, from Bagua to Muay Thai. For 2 years in Flagstaff, Arizona I worked with a very skillful teacher who trained me in Kombatan. Then it was time to move again. I'm glad for all the experience I've had, though of course I know I've sacrificed depth for breadth. But now I've found a home in Wado & intend to stay for the duration.

Back to the topic - we didn't have omote kata in Kombatan. Mostly we trained in pairs doing various striking/blocking patterns, disarms, counters, etc. And every Sunday morning my teacher & I would put on hockey helmets & hockey gloves, grab foam covered sticks & go at it for about 45 min. straight. Hallelujah!

[oneya]

Not so sidetracked really MM, and perhaps a little diversion is permissible seeing as we are still talking omote kata - or at least facets of omote kata - and perhaps a wander along its raison d'être path..?

oneya

[monkey mind]

Fair enough, oneya. As for the relationship of dance to martial arts, this is a complex and interesting issue. And being married to a ballet teacher, I have maybe a unique perspective. Though ballet and kata require many similar attributes on the part of the performer, the raison d'etre couldn't be more different. One is purely for aesthetics, the other is (or can I say "should be"?) only for practical effect. Other dances, like in the Filipino example, may be efforts to dress up or even mask martial techniques. But in doing so, by changing the body mechanics don't you run the very big risk of degrading the effectiveness of the very movements you're trying to preserve? I suppose you could say that the dances are for public performance & the 'real' techniques are passed on in private but still I think the danger is there & can only grow over time.

And to Toshihiro Oshiro's point raised by Gusei, that dance can be harder than kata - I don't doubt it. High level ballet dancers have phenomenal strength & flexibility. My wife would go to yoga classes & as a beginner be able to do things that the instructors couldn't do. The discipline required to be a high level dancer easily rivals that of any martial artist, and without that specific training, you'd be hard pressed to pull off what a dancer can do. It goes both ways though. My wife has a very hard time with karate movements that I try to show her since she's so conditioned to move in certain ways. Naihanchi stance is practically against her religion!

[oneya]

You may well be right MM, - "the ballet and kata require many similar attributes on the part of the performer, the raison d'etre couldn't be more different". - but the reverse is also possible as evidenced by your wife’s ability being hidden in plain sight by not being ‘visible’ to the yoga adepts, the same should apply to the martial aspects which can be hidden also in the dance. If we see omote as the face of kata and ura as what is behind the face – as in intent, philosophy or technical – for instance an office block, hospital or prison has a similar face but its intent and inner philosophy are very different – It is purpose, context and the intent that often defines. What better place then to hide ones martial intent than in something diametrically opposed to its raison d'etre.?


Thinking about it, there are times when I think Naihanchi could well be against my religion also..

oneya