All Wado Karate Forum

Ah thank you for that explanation Mark but I was asking about the different concepts and principles involved in Wado ryu rather than say Shotokan or Shito ryu, I mean the principles that enable you to identify a kata as being wado ryu.

As I understand it, Shoto, Shitoryu and Wado ryu are all very different animals and each will require a very different physical dynamic and intent if one is going to do justice to them. As Tim has noted wado ryu is very complicated and I can agree with him but your dojo seems to enjoy a much higher degree of complexity. So I am wondering how do you manage to keep these ‘alien dynamics’ separate to prevent them encroaching into say: your practice of Kihon Kumite.?

oneya

I see what you mean. I don't know if I can explain it very well, except to say it's like a mental switch. Because Shotokan does have such a different feel to it, it just feels like doing something completely different. Like playing football and basketball - they're so different that you can play both without getting confused. Please understand, we don't go into the meaning or principles of the other styles in anything like as much detail as we do with wado. It's mores like, once in a while we can look at, say, kanku sho just for a change, but still in the context of a wado club. No doubt my interpretation of it is completely different from how a shoktokan practitioner would do it. For one thing, I can never get all those dramatic pauses to look dramatic enough ;-)

Also, I'm quite sure if the were to be any sign of shotokan leaking into our kihons, the instructor would soon put a stop to it.

Mark wrote: One other thing just sprang to mind. When teaching a muy thai way of doing knee kicks once, after the traditional wado version, and warning us that these are not strictly wado, Sensei mentioned in an aside that one of the Japanese instructors (I'm afraid I can't remember which one - it may have been Takamizawa) had once said on the subject of "alien" techniques, something like "well, if I teach it in a wado class, then it is wado, and who's to say it isn't?" There's probably a whole debate just in that.

There is actually a set of rules of thumb; a kind of Wado check list which can give some important indicators as to if something qualifies as Wado or not. Although these rules have permeated through from Ohtsuka Sensei there have been some losses in translation.

I agree with Oneya, we have previously discussed (on this forum or the other forum) how dangerous it is to have to switch from one operational mode to another.

I think I can understand the spirit of what Takamizawa Sensei may have said. I suspect with someone like him everything he does is Wado, in that he can’t help himself, the training just takes over.

Tim

Tim49 wrote:There is actually a set of rules of thumb; a kind of Wado check list which can give some important indicators as to if something qualifies as Wado or not. Although these rules have permeated through from Ohtsuka Sensei there have been some losses in translation.

Interesting...
What are these rules of thumb? I could think of a few, but I never heard of a set that was passed down from Ohtsuka sensei.

Gusei21 wrote:Ultimately I don't care as long as we get to practice together with whomever we want without being bound by ridiculous rules based in fear which seems to be the norm in certain circles these days.

Now this just might be what made me start this thread. I think I didn't realize it at first.

I'm kind of imagining or hoping that everyone from the 3 groups could practice with each other with complete freedom. Of course there would be many top level senseis with their own little differences in techniques and all like it has been before just like you said. But there would be one person or a group that would be considered as the head of the one joined organization.
Now I'm also thinking about that some techniques would be standardized. And also having roughly the same kind of gradings and grading standards everywhere. But I guess these would be impossible and perhaps pointless to try to do. Maybe because wado should be a living style.

Like I mentioned before, I was introduced to wado much later than many of you and after the split(s), hence my different view on this. But I think your posts helped me to accept this current situation in the wado world and in fact it only seems natural. I still have so much to learn.

Chiefobrien

Chiefobrien wrote:I'm kind of imagining or hoping that everyone from the 3 groups could practice with each other with complete freedom.

You'll find that many members of this forum already do exactly that. I, for one, am member of JKF-Wadokai but have always been treated in the most hospitable way when attending WIKF and Wadoryu Renmei dojos and events. The other way round, members of other organizations are most welcome in my dojo too.
So no matter the political differences, or even the stylistic variations, fortunately in that particular sense we ARE one happy family.

kyudo wrote:

Tim49 wrote:There is actually a set of rules of thumb; a kind of Wado check list which can give some important indicators as to if something qualifies as Wado or not. Although these rules have permeated through from Ohtsuka Sensei there have been some losses in translation.

Interesting...
What are these rules of thumb? I could think of a few, but I never heard of a set that was passed down from Ohtsuka sensei.

You could start with the ‘Mudana’ series.

Tim

Tim49 wrote: You could start with the ‘Mudana’ series.

I'm sorry, but this is all new to me. I never heard of the 'Mudana' series.

kyudo wrote:

Tim49 wrote: You could start with the ‘Mudana’ series.

I'm sorry, but this is all new to me. I never heard of the 'Mudana' series.

Waitaminute....
You're referring to:
Mudana no chikara
Mudana no ugoki
Mudana no waza

Right?

kyudo wrote:

kyudo wrote:

Tim49 wrote: You could start with the ‘Mudana’ series.

I'm sorry, but this is all new to me. I never heard of the 'Mudana' series.

Waitaminute....
You're referring to:
Mudana no chikara
Mudana no ugoki
Mudana no waza

Right?

Yes, that is correct.

Tim