Re: When were the kata standardized?
Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:06 am
Hi Reg
What I mean is that the custom and practice adopted as the core of the Wadoryu was standardised in a format we would probably recognise by the late 1940's. In particular, the practice of the 9 kata. Otsuka's 1970 book apparently makes that clear but I understand the earlier work which was limited in circulation, also made this point.
Yes, this is what I am looking for; when were the 9 core kata formalized by floor pattern, stance, and more or less terminal position, for the respective counts in the kata. My idea was very much the same as you suggest here; by 1938 key divergences from Shotokan were in place, then there was the complete disruption of the karate world by WWII, and finally there would be a desperate need for standardization of the kata as they tried to reorganize and regroup returning from war. I have read or heard several people say almost everyone forgot kata during the war; I think the kata in their current form were much in place by 1949. There was some input from Kenwa Mabuni who died in 1952, so I think the "normalization phase of the Pinans was during the war or just before the war (much more likely). The year 1938 was likely pretty important in the history of Wado. Conversely, 1934-1940 marks Yoshitaka Funakoshi's many changes in Shotokan.
Jitte, Jion, Chinto, Bassai, Seishan, Niseishi, and Wanshu of pre 1934 Shotokan seem quite similar to contemporary wadoryu--especially Wadokai versions.
In fact, The Mabuni "corrections" or Shito input seems incomplete in contemporary wadoryu--it seems clearly evident only in the Pinans and Kushanku--there is extremely little in Niseishi, Jion and Jitte and none in Bassai, Seishan, Chinto and Wanshu. Rohai is taken directly from shitoryu. I still can't understand why Ohtsuka Sensei did not adopt Meikyo rather than Rohai shodan, as it was frequently practiced while he was with Funakoshi. My theory is that he liked the naihanchi type qualities in rohai.
Thanks so much, everyone, for your input, T.
What I mean is that the custom and practice adopted as the core of the Wadoryu was standardised in a format we would probably recognise by the late 1940's. In particular, the practice of the 9 kata. Otsuka's 1970 book apparently makes that clear but I understand the earlier work which was limited in circulation, also made this point.
Yes, this is what I am looking for; when were the 9 core kata formalized by floor pattern, stance, and more or less terminal position, for the respective counts in the kata. My idea was very much the same as you suggest here; by 1938 key divergences from Shotokan were in place, then there was the complete disruption of the karate world by WWII, and finally there would be a desperate need for standardization of the kata as they tried to reorganize and regroup returning from war. I have read or heard several people say almost everyone forgot kata during the war; I think the kata in their current form were much in place by 1949. There was some input from Kenwa Mabuni who died in 1952, so I think the "normalization phase of the Pinans was during the war or just before the war (much more likely). The year 1938 was likely pretty important in the history of Wado. Conversely, 1934-1940 marks Yoshitaka Funakoshi's many changes in Shotokan.
Jitte, Jion, Chinto, Bassai, Seishan, Niseishi, and Wanshu of pre 1934 Shotokan seem quite similar to contemporary wadoryu--especially Wadokai versions.
In fact, The Mabuni "corrections" or Shito input seems incomplete in contemporary wadoryu--it seems clearly evident only in the Pinans and Kushanku--there is extremely little in Niseishi, Jion and Jitte and none in Bassai, Seishan, Chinto and Wanshu. Rohai is taken directly from shitoryu. I still can't understand why Ohtsuka Sensei did not adopt Meikyo rather than Rohai shodan, as it was frequently practiced while he was with Funakoshi. My theory is that he liked the naihanchi type qualities in rohai.
Thanks so much, everyone, for your input, T.