All Wado Karate Forum

Gary wrote: Not sure how many of you guys practice this for example:-

You: Sit in seiza with hands on your thighs
Partner: Assume press up position toward you with hands on your wrists (so basically his entire weight is bearing down on your wrists).
You: Rise up from seiza onto both knees and lift arms up (to horizontal) in the process.

Result - your partner ends up in standing position.

It’s actually not too hard to do - if you know how to use your body correctly.

Oh my!
I did a lot of that, back in my days with Muramatsu sensei in Amsterdam. See the images. The man is strong as an ox...
Most of it is technique, though. And more interesting is the difficulty of not telegraphing your movement when getting up. It is about moving your centre without moving your limbs first. That's pretty hard to do...
And yes, I guess that's what Kuroda is doing too...
I wonder where that exercise came from. I know Muramatsu has some pretty alien sources of inspiration. Where did you learn the exercise, Gary?

Hi Gary,

What about without rising the body?



edit: Nukina sensei (first time I saw it, I'm in the background, longer hair!)

Hi AJ,

I would say the first version is easier (again if you know how to do it).

It's all about "washing the face" as Hakoishi sensei would say ie the upward movement of the hand close to the face. In Diato ryu they referred to the movement of the hands as "morning glory flower" with elbows directly behind (underneath) the direction of flow.

To do it with straight arms is more difficult.

Gary

Gary wrote:

oneya wrote:Hi MF

It's a small thing but If its purpose is to work towards an integrated body moving as a complete unit, you might be better off thinking of the practice as movement or exercises rather than techniques if you are going to work on understanding how a connected body works.

oneya

Hi Reg,

Yes, I understand that these are exercises designed to allow the student to "realise" body mechanics/movement and whilst I accept that in combative application there are softeners etc. involved, I still feel that a better lesson is learnt if your training partner doesn't give in too easily.
Gary

I agree Gary but my point is: more the understanding that the role of both ukemi amd torimi in wado paired omote kata not being a collective monologue but a physical dialogue with continuous study of movement as its goal rather than a piece for display. In the process both ukemi and torimi need to see themselves as part of the whole where compliance is meted out in an awareness of each others diminishing needs as progress is made.

Wadoka's tale of woe with his partner yanking him back before he starts in the exercise is an example of not understanding that training is for a mutual benefit not a contest for the egocentric.

oneya

I see more videos and productions on body movement these days. Maybe the ease of multimedia production is helping or maybe people are looking for new progressive thinking, or just a rediscovery of the old.

WadoAJ wrote:Hi Gary,

What about without rising the body?



edit: Nukina sensei (first time I saw it, I'm in the background, longer hair!)

This is one of the basic principle exercises in some systems of koryu jujutsu. Not a formal technique, but more of a way of understanding how the body works.

Some say it's aiki, others like myself, say it's the correct usage of the centre of gravity combined with the principle that tendons are stronger than muscular strength. In this particular exercise, it's the usage of the extensor tendons.

There are more of these kind of exersizes to eliminate certain body mechanics forcing one to rely on internal energy. Naka Tatsuya sensei from Shotokan shows some on his DVD On his DVD he calls this experiments. In my opinion, it is not really a tool to develop, rather to check current development. It would be better to study Seiza Mokuso and Naihanchi.

AJ

I started a new thread for body mechanics in general so we can continue about Kuroda in this thread and about the rest in the other.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=102

WadoAJ wrote:There are more of these kind of exersizes to eliminate certain body mechanics forcing one to rely on internal energy. Naka Tatsuya sensei from Shotokan shows some on his DVD On his DVD he calls this experiments. In my opinion, it is not really a tool to develop, rather to check current development. It would be better to study Seiza Mokuso and Naihanchi.

AJ

Err...Naka is Wado...internally...He is just moonlighting as a shotokan guy.

The Akuzawa footage particularly interests me as he makes impact. For the junzuki gyakuzuki pair the movement is very reminiscent of Takamizawa sensei's shorter range gyakuzuki. He makes tsugi ashi for the junzuki which could mean for forward body mass transfer than just leading with the front foot.