All Wado Karate Forum

Rewarding in the context of the competition point system. Speaking on purely the sporting aspect, if the point system is objective then in theory it should show a bias towards awarding athletic ability as well as superior strategy and technique. If the point system actually doesn't have this bias, then it is not reflective of it's purpose. If it rewards these peculiar techniques which only a select number of competitors might emply, then it is an unfair system. I am not accusing the WKF point system of being such a system as it stands. Rather I was posing the question as to whether this is a step in the wrong direction.

In short, not a commentary on the general practice of karate. Merely the sport and competative aspect within the context of WKF competition.

Ah, thank you, reads better and much clearer.

oneya

No zanchin, no kime, disconnect between limb and body...this should not be a scoring technique in my opinion. But, the taekwondozation of sport karate continues...

I knew I'd seen that kick before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zTne4JzgBM

Tim Shaw

here's an even better demonstration of the scorpion kick by the original creator (as far as I know):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zSGWpLkj8k&feature=fvst

Tim49 wrote:I knew I'd seen that kick before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zTne4JzgBM

Tim Shaw

haha nice

AG1 wrote:here's an even better demonstration of the scorpion kick by the original creator (as far as I know):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zSGWpLkj8k&feature=fvst

Yes but the Beckham version is so very.....English.

Tim Shaw

oops.. I am on the wrong bloody forum..??

oneya

Joking aside, Matsuhisa is evidently a capable karate-ka and thus does not use such techniques as a crutch. Looking at the video alone, he saw an opportunity and used the kick. Although it may not be a ‘killing’ method if we attach the context of actual combat, it was used well in the context of the sport. We might deride it, as I have by declaring it a gimmick, however if it is used well is it not as deserving as any other technique in point-style competition?

@Oneya: Although my initial point was about the sport aspect alone I have given it greater thought on the wider spectrum due to your question. There are Wado Ryu clubs which will of course be more inclined to the sport aspect and this will direct their style of training. With such techniques being introduced, do you reckon that it might further influence such clubs away from traditional Wado Ryu, as they may adopt these colourful techniques?

Wado heretic wrote:Although it may not be a ‘killing’ method if we attach the context of actual combat, it was used well in the context of the sport. We might deride it, as I have by declaring it a gimmick, however if it is used well is it not as deserving as any other technique in point-style competition?

Hi,

I hope your question is not as much circular reasoning as it seems to be. So are you saying that if a technique is good for scoring points, then it deserves to be rewarded with points?


Personally I do not have any strong opinion on this technique. One problem is safety vs effectiveness. The kick is not easy to control in such a way that you could safely demonstrate that "I could have done some damage here if I would've chosen to". Another problem is in a way of social nature: What if people eventually start trying this technique and compromomise good balance, even when the choice would be ridiculous from a martial point of view? If a new kind of culture gets born?

I don't know the rules well enough, but I guess the culture of interpreting the rules matter more. I guess distancing and timing should be good enough to get points, but for example in the clip the receiver probably was safely inside, even if he gets hit in the head. (Can't tell exactly, to be honest.. There might be potential for danger (heel: higher velocity and harder part) or there might not be potential (calf: lower velocity and a soft part). This few inches makes all the difference in the world.) So this technique perhaps should be one you don't easily get points from, because it is difficult and risky. What we see on that clip is probably a good performance. It at least is very close to being dangerous and effective.



More generally, the rules of the game should honour the tradition the game is a part of. It is not just sport. Well, I guess it almost is, but the rules still can be written partially from a budo perspective. It is important to understand the value of the symbiosis of the sport and the style organizations. Both sides win. Growing too much apart is not a good thing.