All Wado Karate Forum

An overzealous punch to the kidneys during sanbon gumite keri uke is a moot point Tim but this Uke is the sensei however who should understand when sori is appropriate in sanbon kumite jodan nihonme, especially when the punch is happening right before his eyes.

If I get hit in the dojo, especially by a white belt with a few weeks training, it is my fault - them guys are dangerous.

edit: should read sanbon kumite jodan uke ipponme.

oneya (sober)

Agreed with you Oneya.

I use this as an example of someone being either; careless, thoughtless, inconsiderate, clumsy, ignorant of the effects of trauma to that particular area or just plain malicious. Uke has to trust the Tori will do the right thing. Imagine it done with blades.

Tim

I executed the proper moves but on the third part I just didn't stop short of the jaw. I'm totally at fault of course because I've done MA for decades and ought to know better. Simply put, my concentration lapsed and kihon kumite requires the nage and uke to be totally focused lest accudents like this happen. But it was never malicious intent. I respect my sensei quite a lot.

Hi manjin,

Your initial post said you were practicing sanbon kumite jodan and your description led me to think it was jodan uke ipponme which – unless there is a change to the original format - ends with right uppercut and left mawashi empi chudan by torimi which is to drive ukemi’s weight and head backwards and open him to the mawashi empi.

If this is the format you are working with and ukemi was your sensei you have nothing to reproach yourself for because ukemi role is to move his head back to avoid the punch.

oneya

oneya wrote:Hi manjin,

Your initial post said you were practicing sanbon kumite jodan and your description led me to think it was jodan uke ipponme which – unless there is a change to the original format - ends with right uppercut and left mawashi empi chudan by torimi which is to drive ukemi’s weight and head backwards and open him to the mawashi empi.

If this is the format you are working with and ukemi was your sensei you have nothing to reproach yourself for because ukemi role is to move his head back to avoid the punch.

oneya

yes, sorry- my terminology isn't quite as clear as it ought to be. We were doing Sanbon kumite jodan uke.

Tim49 wrote:Agreed with you Oneya.

I use this as an example of someone being either; careless, thoughtless, inconsiderate, clumsy, ignorant of the effects of trauma to that particular area or just plain malicious. Uke has to trust the Tori will do the right thing. Imagine it done with blades.

Tim

Accidents are one thing but "careless, thoughtless, inconsiderate, clumsy, ignorant of the effects of trauma to that particular area or just plain malicious." has too many ingredients of the bully or budding psychopath and raises my hackles also Tim, imo there's no need and no place for this in a wado dojo.

oneya

Tim49 wrote:Agreed with you Oneya.

I use this as an example of someone being either; careless, thoughtless, inconsiderate, clumsy, ignorant of the effects of trauma to that particular area or just plain malicious. Uke has to trust the Tori will do the right thing. Imagine it done with blades.

Tim

Tim, I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding your post, but are you branding me as one of these things? I hope not because I'm not normally "clumsy" and I've never been careless, thoughtless, or ignorant of the effects of trauma based on atemi. I'm beside myself for inflicting discomfort on my teacher because he DID trust that I can control my waza (which I normally do and that is why I'm so upset by this obviously). I am accountable for my error but I don't think it's fair to brand me as negligent based on this single incident. I've done sanbon for months now with no ill effects to any of my partners- it was a mistake but one that didn't end up with any serious injuries. No broken teeth. No concussion. It did teach me a very valuable lesson. Wado, of all the styles I've done, is a very serious martial art. Its waza can be very profoundly affecting on another person. If anything, this has reminded me that it demands the utmost respect.

I of course will endeavour to control my kime in the future. I try to employ full control but full commitment towards each technique. Otherwise it is just flapping one's arms and hands about like a dancer and I find this also disrespectful towards Karate.

Once again, I apologize if this is not what you meant in your post. I guess I'm a little defensive when someone appears to challenge my integrity though.

majin29 wrote:

Tim49 wrote:Agreed with you Oneya.

I use this as an example of someone being either; careless, thoughtless, inconsiderate, clumsy, ignorant of the effects of trauma to that particular area or just plain malicious. Uke has to trust the Tori will do the right thing. Imagine it done with blades.

Tim

Tim, I apologize in advance if I'm misunderstanding your post, but are you branding me as one of these things? I hope not because I'm not normally "clumsy" and I've never been careless, thoughtless, or ignorant of the effects of trauma based on atemi. I'm beside myself for inflicting discomfort on my teacher because he DID trust that I can control my waza (which I normally do and that is why I'm so upset by this obviously). I am accountable for my error but I don't think it's fair to brand me as negligent based on this single incident. I've done sanbon for months now with no ill effects to any of my partners- it was a mistake but one that didn't end up with any serious injuries. No broken teeth. No concussion. It did teach me a very valuable lesson. Wado, of all the styles I've done, is a very serious martial art. Its waza can be very profoundly affecting on another person. If anything, this has reminded me that it demands the utmost respect.

I of course will endeavour to control my kime in the future. I try to employ full control but full commitment towards each technique. Otherwise it is just flapping one's arms and hands about like a dancer and I find this also disrespectful towards Karate.

Once again, I apologize if this is not what you meant in your post. I guess I'm a little defensive when someone appears to challenge my integrity though.

Yes, you've got it right, that's not what I meant. I was merely reccounting somethings I'd seen in the past. Accidents do happen.

Tim

I think the topic title sums it up, accidents do happen.

What Tim and Oneya have mentioned, I have seen in Wado and other dojo where they become a cheapshot, some belief that it is a conditioning exercise, verging on bullying. Pairwork is a mutual process, for the benefit of both involved and not for one to diminish the other.

I don't have a problem with instructors getting whacked as long as the attack has no malicious intent.
What I take issue with is famous instructors attacking back twice as hard after being whacked accidentally by their students because their wee ego got bruised and we know who they are.