All Wado Karate Forum

oneya wrote:.
I have this dreadful Déjà vu feeling, D'ye think it may be the wine.!

oneya

Yes we are in danger of heading down a well worn path that takes us nowhere interesting...

Going back to the clips, I've just watched them through, they were made a few years ago so he's about 80 when he did them. I don't think he mentions the word bunkai once. He's showing principles. We might not all do the kata exactly as he does them but I think these are excellent references for anyone really interested in delving deeper in to how to do the techniques efficiently.

Ben

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Exactly why I like this young fella Ben. He continues to make the vitality of the fundamental principles engrossing without the slightest sign of ura mawashi-geri jodan or a set of sparring mitts.

oneya.

If we have been here before, I apologise. I didnt realise, I must have missed it

shep

shep wrote:If we have been here before, I apologise. I didnt realise, I must have missed it

shep

No No Shep, for me it is the Acer post saying:

I saw the parts with the opponents...
Well nobody will attack you with ''jun tsuki'' I just hate those kind of unpractical bunkai, ''karate attacks'' vs ''karate defenses'' as the explanation of what kata moves are for... For me it’s more honest to just say : ''I don’t have a clue what those moves meaning...''

that brought on the deja vu. Another look at Setamatsu is always welcome.

oops, sorry for the lurid colour..

oneya

Principles...Principles...Principles...Kaisetsu not bunkai etc etc...
Why then don’t he saw the principles using more practical and real attacks rather than the classic :'' Now the opponent will attack me with jun tsuki (what in the world) and then freeze there (no words)...''
Its not only he,its not personal,but how many times did you all see exactly this kind of explanation to the simple question ''what does this move meaning?''
I just want to see the principles applied in a different scenario in different kind of attacks and not only on ''jun tsuki/ gyaku tsuki'' attacks and that’s it..... Is that so bad?

must......keep.......awaaay......from.......keyboard....

Get thee behind me Seishan!

I tried, oh how I tried

shep

Dear friends,
if this is a close forum for only those that share the same opinions and must handling with irony anyone that ask and write something different then my apologies I didn’t know that and I will leave this forum at once.
I didn’t want to cause any trouble...

Hi Acer,

it is definitely NOT a closed forum but you really do have the wrong end of the stick. Many of the guys around here for the last couple of years are practitioners with many years of training and study and a basic explanation (kaisetsu) is traditionally a simple role for ukemi where the explanation involves only a part of his anatomy - usually his arm and perhaps his leg in a basic movement. - at first. The process does not start with a fighting movement neither is it a fighting technique at this early stage plus it is NOT limited to this kaisetsu however and many more vigorous examples will follow to prove the theory, this is where ohyo kumite comes in. It is a wado ryu practice that makes it different from Bunkai and it is always carried out in kihon technically. Then we have Kihon Kumite also as part of this learning cycle so it is only a small part that you are seeing from Setamatsu sensei. What we see here is Setamatsu sensei explaining the principles at work that need to happen in one's body and understanding of wado movement to build the body memory so it is just a method of study.

I mentioned deja vu because this is the second attempt on this forum where you are hollering at a particular practice that you see as being wrong - even though you have a Japanese sensei with 50 plus years of experience showing the way. D'you think perhaps you could possibly be wrong? Why not have a think about it rather than getting antsy at the forum members that don't agree with you.?

I hope you don't jump ship just because there are many that don't agree with you, some of them are very skilled sensei with many years study of wado ryu under their obi and they are really being quite gentle. Maybe they are just waiting to see an empty cup.


oneya

Some more film of him here from an earlier film:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpjIvs-S ... re=related

Ben

Many of the guys around here for the last couple of years are practitioners with many years of training and study and a basic explanation (kaisetsu) is traditionally a simple role for ukemi where the explanation involves only a part of his anatomy - usually his arm and perhaps his leg in a basic movement. - at first. The process does not start with a fighting movement neither is it a fighting technique at this early stage plus it is NOT limited to this kaisetsu however and many more vigorous examples will follow to prove the theory, this is where ohyo kumite comes in. It is a wado ryu practice that makes it different from Bunkai and it is always carried out in kihon technically. Then we have Kihon Kumite also as part of this learning cycle so it is only a small part that you are seeing from Setamatsu sensei. What we see here is Setamatsu sensei explaining the principles at work that need to happen in one's body and understanding of wado movement to build the body memory so it is just a method of study.

Fair enough..So, could you please show me the next stage then?The examples that will follow ?How these principles applied against I don’t know,hook punches?Low kicks?Take downs something different from the usually jun tsuki attacks?Off topic I know but I always wonder why we don’t have kihons with hook punches or even pair works against those kinds of attacks (hook punches,takedowns,low kicks)
Our drills focus only against straight punches what about the rest?

mentioned deja vu because this is the second attempt on this forum where you are hollering at a particular practice that you see as being wrong - even though you have a Japanese sensei with 50 plus years of experience showing the way. D'you think perhaps you could possibly be wrong?

And this is the reason I ask questions that somebody don’t like and answer with irony...

some of them are very skilled sensei with many years study of wado ryu under their obi and they are really being quite gentle.

The irony is the gentle way?Ok.....

I think one of the inevitable flaws of a forum like this is that we are dealing with a system which has considerable depth and as such we will always fall short of giving compete and comprehensive explanations. On general martial arts Internet forums they seem to get away with discussions of a lighter nature.

Acer,
You are entitled to your own opinions, but when you present your opinions on a public forum be prepared to have them challenged. Your previous comments on the forum were addressed and discussed and it was clear to me at the time that everyone stated their cases and you have a choice to accept their opinions, either in part or whole, or you are equally free to dismiss them.

Now on here you loft up a contentious view and then go all sulky when people give their opinion. If you are intending to engage in discussion then please be aware that it should be a two way street.

With regard to your comment about ‘principles’, the application of these principles in Wado is difficult, the challenge for any instructor is to communicate the principles to the students firstly so that they understand them with their applied intelligence and then (so it doesn’t just remain on the cerebral plane) to be able to make them work on a practical level. If you look around (Youtube etc.) there are plenty of Wado people trying hard to apply these principles through the format of formalised kumite and in many cases failing to reach the mark, often it’s not their fault or the fault of formalised kumite, it’s the fault of poor transmission, how on earth can these people hope to apply the principles in an informal attack format if they can’t make them work in a formal one? You have to start somewhere.

Hook punches, low kicks (I won’t even need to mention ‘takedowns’, they are all over the place in Wado) are just variations on the vortices or loci of human movement, where’s the big problem? Understand the vortices/loci i.e. work with the Principles and the problem becomes no problem, of course it all depends on the student/teacher applying the Principles in intelligent ways. But if the brand of Wado is hidebound then the poor student doesn’t have a hope in hell.

Tim