Wado Myths

[oneya]

Hi Ben,

this is old wado ryu lore from the sixties... one point of it being: you need to understand the wado posture intrinsic in wado movement and have total control over your body before you can have any control over the opponent's body.

oneya

[karateman7]

As in all cultures and subcultures, there are myths. I remember from the previous forums there was discussion on the teachings that were misinterpreted and passed down on the line (language?).

I thought it'd be interesting to list and talk about these. It's such a shame for people who are totally invested in learning an art and are stuck with a teach who, for any reason, adopted these "myths."

Two that come to mind are 1) in kata, you must start and end at the same place 2) one strike one kill (I think I heard this was mistranslated?)

I may be wrong (and I probably am) but it seems a lot of holes in understanding were filled with generic karate principles.

One that I'm unsure about is the keeping the body squared, which is seen a lot in shotokan. Whenever I saw Otskua II or Otsuka III, their bodies are 45 degrees.

Hi karateman7,

I guess I should have just answered the question and kept it simple but generic karate information given out by instructors thinking it applies to wado ryu will shuffle my cards. So just a (sober) word about the squared versus angled shoulders in wado ryu.

In my opinion, Funakoshi Gichin, having an Azato-Itosu lineage, the subsequent Shoto version of squared shoulders is not Gichin Funakoshi typical of the times but more likely a significant change to the style by Gigo Funakoshi his son and heir to Shotokan. Ohtsuka meijin's early karate experiences were intially Funakosi Gichin and later and perhaps more significantly Choki Motobu and Kenwa Mabuni who were all very much part of the wado ryu template but perhaps not so significant as his Shindo Yoshin ryu years which can be seen in all aspects of his wado ryu training.

Simple biology and a study of anatomy will show the weaknesses and strengths of any particular posture and all wado ryu postures are significantly shaped (angled?) in training to achieve maximum strengths through optimal physical alignment and governed weight displacement, this is essential 'throughout' the necessary movement. Initial stages of training will often incorporate angles in terms of degrees as mnemonics for students but height, weight and body type will also be considered to shape a student to his full potential.

oneya

Hi Oneya,

In response to the bold section, I'm glad there are people who are still around to dispel some of these myths/misinformed/misinterpreted claims. Although a good teacher and practice in the dojo are the only ways to learn wado, I think it's unfortunate that some people have both in incomplete forms. One minor glitch in the system can ruin it. One can have a good teacher, a person capable of effectively conveying a message that makes it palatable to their students. But if what the teacher learned from his teacher is not complete, then the student, who is practicing what he is being taught faithfully (ugh I hate that word), will have to suffer the conseqences.

In other words, perhaps the open source of information (not answers) on forums and discussions is the key to "enlighten" and dispel these myths and stop the horrible mutations we see in martial arts.

I just returned from a tournament where, two years ago, Otsuka Jiro Sensei simply told the competitors they weren't practicing good Wado. Two years later, they're still yelling and screaming during their katas, throwing haymakers, and doing their best imitations of tae kwon.

Those who want to see the light will see it.

[karateman7]

Hi AJ,

At first I wasn't sure what it was about in this thread, from reading just the first posting. Not too sure now either, after repeating what has been written. In the case that we all might be talking about different things or from a different point of view, I thought it would be a good thing to tell that my p.o.v. was punches in general, not just junzuki. Of course it's possible then that it had nothing to do with the myth itself.

I have to admit that I don't understand what the myth here really is meant to be here... About kamae, tachikata, a punch or perhaps some interplay between some of these? Maybe karateman7 will help us out a little?


(My first thought was that it had something to do with kamae, since in some shools of MA they encourage to not have either side in front. Then later my thought changed more to punching in general after reading about weight-transfer.)

Hi class,

The point of the thread was, in some respects, to bring out the common themes in some wado schools that just got mutilited down the information high way. From the previous forum, there were many things that people said that were questioned by other more senior members. So I thought it would be interesting to start a thread that specifically dealt with them. this is why I mentioned "starting and stopping at the same spot during kata" and "having the bodying facing forward (squared shoulders) in junzuki dachi (although we call this zenkutsudachi in my class for whatever reason).

If you read my response to Oneya, you'll see why I think it's important.

[wadoka]

karateman7, open source of information - I like that.

I think it is true that we can say 'Those who want to see the light will see it.' But as some of us have on various forums, tried to give some light, there are those that have invested so much who won't try and look, there are those won't believe and who is to say that any of us have any answers for others. It can be a fruitless exercise at times.

We can all just carry on and those interested can cotton on.

This may not be a Wado myth per se, but I wish people would not bow too much with their training partners that they end up like nodding donkeys. You only need to bow when you start with your partner and once at the end. You do not have to bow at the start and finish of each kihon kumite or whatever you are doing in between.

[shep]

I wish people would not bow too much with their training partners that they end up like nodding donkeys. You only need to bow when you start with your partner and once at the end. You do not have to bow at the start and finish of each kihon kumite or whatever you are doing in between.

I'm with you totally on that one wadoka, also the slapping of the sides of their thighs when they perform the bow. Argh!!!

[Gusei21]

I'm with you totally on that one wadoka, also the slapping of the sides of their thighs when they perform the bow. Argh!!

Hello,
Time to make an appearance at the new forum. So I guess time for a name change as well. To all my friends, hi. Been very busy lately.
Deep in SAP land. No time to see daylight. German plot to take over the software world.
Speaking of slapping sides... I did an interesting experiment in Belgrade the other week.
I had with me a group of world class competitors. I am in the process of converting them to Wado. They are Wado in name but do a hybrid of shotokan and generic karate and do great European kumite. They just took first place in team kumite at the last WKF World Championships.
As they lined up to do ido kihon they all did that 'hands extended and slightly out' pose when I yelled 'yoi'.
I started laughing. I explained to them that yoi means ready and they were not really ready to do much of anything.
Their response was that this is how they 'pose' for kumite just before the referee says hajime and they feel extremely ready.
So I spent the next few minutes showing them the Wado way of being in a state of yoi - arms at rest, relaxed but ready to go.
So they played with it for a while and then when I asked them how they felt they said that their way makes them feel ready to fight but the new way makes them feel MORE ready to fight.

Another insight. During kata training the person who had the worst time converting to Wado was a girl who was a part of the WKF team kata for Serbia that finished in the final 8 at the last WKF World Championships. Her shotokan kata was 'excellent' but she could not do Wado kata. She was too busy posing. The fighters on the other hand made the transition easily. They told me Wado kata felt more natural than what they usually do. Makes perfect sense to me.
You can't do Wado kata if you don't know how to fight.

Gusei21

[Tim49]

I'm with you totally on that one wadoka, also the slapping of the sides of their thighs when they perform the bow. Argh!!!

Do people still do that Shep? I haven't seen that in ages.

Tim

[oneya]

I'm with you totally on that one wadoka, also the slapping of the sides of their thighs when they perform the bow. Argh!!!

Do people still do that Shep? I haven't seen that in ages.

Tim

Nidan from the UK walked into the dojo where I was teaching last week and did just that Tim. He wasn't a wado lite fella either.

oneya

[wadoka]

Did he also follow the myth of always look at the opponent, which turns ends up in them sticking their heads out like a nodding pidgeon?

The simple act of bowing and taking yoi can be done so badly at times.

[Gary]

Did he also follow the myth of always look at the opponent, which turns ends up in them sticking their heads out like a nodding pidgeon?

The simple act of bowing and taking yoi can be down so badly at times.

Full face forward and elbows sticking out?

Gary