Mr. E.Eriguchi

[Aslan]

Gusei 21, in connection with your posts, I have another question.
On the Wadokai website we can see Standards for acquiring Dan grades, Titles and other qualifications.
I don't know any of the well-known instructors, who hold practical dan and who - recommended, but it is obvious, that on the seventh or eighth practical dan rent is not all.
For that the recommended grade invented? As I understand it, JKF awards are given on the recommendation, is not it?
Sorry, if my English is not good.

[Gusei21]

Gusei 21, in connection with your posts, I have another question.
On the Wadokai website we can see Standards for acquiring Dan grades, Titles and other qualifications.
I don't know any of the well-known instructors, who hold practical dan and who - recommended, but it is obvious, that on the seventh or eighth practical dan rent is not all.
For that the recommended grade invented? As I understand it, JKF awards are given on the recommendation, is not it?
Sorry, if my English is not good.

There is a difference between dan grades and shogo
Dan grades in the Wadokai can be earned by taking and passing the technical test or by recommendation.
But to get it by recommendation you usually have to first attempt the technical examination and if you fail it then the recommendation grade is available.
The Recommended grade does not count towards any prerequisites for that grade at least in theory. Today this is the case.
So practical means technical and it means you passed the test. Recommended means you did not pass the test for one reason or another but the Wadokai feels that you deserve the recognition. We have people who have recommended 8th dans thru shodan. And we have people who have practical 8th dans thru shodan.

[Aslan]

Gusei 21, in connection with your posts, I have another question.
On the Wadokai website we can see Standards for acquiring Dan grades, Titles and other qualifications.
I don't know any of the well-known instructors, who hold practical dan and who - recommended, but it is obvious, that on the seventh or eighth practical dan rent is not all.
For that the recommended grade invented? As I understand it, JKF awards are given on the recommendation, is not it?
Sorry, if my English is not good.

There is a difference between dan grades and shogo
Dan grades in the Wadokai can be earned by taking and passing the technical test or by recommendation.
But to get it by recommendation you usually have to first attempt the technical examination and if you fail it then the recommendation grade is available.
The Recommended grade does not count towards any prerequisites for that grade at least in theory. Today this is the case.
So practical means technical and it means you passed the test. Recommended means you did not pass the test for one reason or another but the Wadokai feels that you deserve the recognition. We have people who have recommended 8th dans thru shodan. And we have people who have practical 8th dans thru shodan.

Thank you very much for your reply. And how it looks from the outside, when a person does not pass dan grading examination, but he handed dan on the recommendation? It is written in the certificate or something else?
And what about the JKF? Is it necessary to pass the exam there or you can get the dan for useful activity?

[Gusei21]

Thank you very much for your reply. And how it looks from the outside, when a person does not pass dan grading examination, but he handed dan on the recommendation? It is written in the certificate or something else?
And what about the JKF? Is it necessary to pass the exam there or you can get the dan for useful activity?

If I understand your question correctly...
In Japan most people know who got their dan grade by recommendation or by the practical (technical) test.
The certificate is the same for both recommended and practical. But in the official dan registry that is kept at the headquarters the information is very clearly written.
Wadokai has chosen to be a technical organization. it prides itself in that manner. At the most recent Instructor's seminar the chairman of the Technical committee declared that the 1st kyu instructor's exam is now more difficult than the 8th dan examination. He said that 1st kyu instructors are expected to be as close to perfect as possible (whatever that means) while 8th dans are allowed more wiggle room for individuality. I guess they want technical clones as instructors but 8th dans can be more expressive? I guess I kind of get it. If you are teaching it has to come from some sort of template so all top instructors need to be on the same technical page. No individual quirks allowed since you are responsible for teaching what is considered the techniques of the Wadokai.
The last two people who passed the 8th dan exam were Kiyomi Sasaki and Chiaki Shimamoto and that was about 5 or 6 years ago? And I was told that there really isn't anyone in the current pool of candidates that are really capable of passing the 8th dan test. Something about we don't train hard enough...lol.
No one has passed the top level instructor exam in several years either and now that the Technical committee has decided to up the difficulty factor it might be a long dry spell.
So how to solve this problem of the lack of top level quality? More instruction. More quality training.
Perhaps the current pool of 7th dans aren't good enough because there wasn't a high level of quality control when they were promoted?
So the Technical committee decided to resolve this issue by staging the 7th dan exam and 8th dan exam on the same day with the same examiners. That way the candidates are being evaluated by the same examiners with the same criteria. In the past you could slip by if you took your exam away from Tokyo. It was an unwritten rule that higher dan exams were easier to pass outside of Tokyo because of regional favoritism and certain regional examiners were not as strict. Tokyo always had the top examiners who had higher standards so the failure rate was significantly higher for high level dan exams held in Tokyo. Now the playing field has been leveled. Testing can only be done in Tokyo for 7th dan and it is now merged with the 8th dan test.
The logic is that not everyone should/can acquire a high level dan grade no matter how hard they try. If you aren't good enough you aren't good enough.
Not everyone can play in the NBA no matter how hard they try.
Wadokai just had their 7th and 8th dan test last weekend. Hopefully someone practiced hard enough to pass.

So given that it is so hard to get a 7th or 8th dan the reality is that it is out of the reach for most people. But some people want the dan grade for different reasons. One guy I know wanted to publish a video and felt it would sell more if he had an 8th dan so he petitioned for one and got one. To each his own.
I was talking to a friend of mine who passed the top level instructor exam a few years ago and who recently attempted and failed the 8th dan test.
His feeling about this whole thing mirrors mine. If you keep throwing yourself into the fire you may or may not pass. If you pass then you just accept it as a 'I just happened by chance to pass this time' sort of thing. The bigger thing for him is that by repeatedly throwing himself into the fire he is getting better and better. You can't help it. It just happens because you are forced to train hard, you are forced to think about your failures and shortcoming and forced to confront them so you can have a better chance of passing next time or perhaps the next time after that or the time after that. All the while you are getting better. I had a chat with a another fellow who has failed his 8th dan 6 times already. He says he will keep trying because this is what motivates him to improve.
This system might not work for everyone but it works for me perhaps because I am inherently lazy and won't practice unless there was some sort of motivation.

[Gary]

That's what I just said... wasn't it?

I took you to being polite in the typical Anglo fashion and said you believe..which connotes a possibility of uncertainty in American English as I understand it to be.
I was being definitive. I'm a programmer. I apologize if I offended you in any way....

No problem - I was being too abrupt.

Plus, you did add about Arakawa sensei being 7th dan.

I think it was on the old AK forum where this was discussed before.

Who is qualified to grade him?

Gary

[Gary]

Sorry, I hadn’t read your previous post.

Interesting - you can compare it to the National Geographic doc on the Kendo Hachidan and the old fella that kept failing.

He looked at it as a positive thing and that all the time he was able to test for it, it was an opportunity to improve and discover something new.

Gary

[Aslan]

If I understand your question correctly...

Thank you very much for your reply. It was really interesting. I've always wanted to Wadokai maintained a high level of
dan drading. Especially when compared with other styles of karate. It is good motivation. We know that in today's world, many karate dans are handed out without exams. It is very bad.
Sorry, but your didn't answer about JKF grading.

P.S. If I understand you correctly about instructor who got 8 dan and made "Wadokai" DVD..I think he certainly deserves the 8 dan and his video is really very useful. Of course, this is my personal opinion. Not for discussion.

[Gusei21]

Sorry, but your didn't answer about JKF grading.

P.S. If I understand you correctly about instructor who got 8 dan and made "Wadokai" DVD..I think he certainly deserves the 8 dan and his video is really very useful. Of course, this is my personal opinion. Not for discussion.

Hi Aslan,

By JKF you mean Japan Karate Federation right? They have a separate test.
You must perform 2 kata.
That test is also very difficult to pass, especially at 8th dan.
No one ever passes it on the first try.
The funny thing is that in the past JKF 8th dan test was considered to be the most difficult test in Japanese karate.
But somehow I know a few Wadokai people who managed to pass the JKF 8th dan but still is failing the Wadokai 8th dan.
So what does that mean now? That Wadokai 8th dan test is harder to pass than the JKF 8th dan? Perhaps.

Not sure which 8th dan Wadokai master you are talking about but...(because Sakagami has videos out, Ajari has videos out, Arakawa Sensei is a 7th dan..and Suzuki Sensei is techincally WIKF so...I don't know of any other 8th dan Wadokai master who published a video).
If we are talking about the same person then in my opinion he is mentally ill and his last name does not begin with S.....and he thinks he is the Wado master of the Universe.
Wadokai people in Japan think he is crazy too, but I know him better than most people and in my opinion he is crazy.
He wrote a letter to the Wadokai complaining about the incompetent of Arakawa Sensei because he did not know how to teach kata correctly at the last Wadokai World Championships..lol.. He said Arakawa Sensei was doing it wrong.
He recently published a new set of videos and claimed his way was the correct way and that the Wadokai Technical committee was wrong......really funny stuff. The moral of this story is that excessive alcohol abuse rots your brain cells and makes you do funny things.

[Aslan]

Sorry, but your didn't answer about JKF grading.

P.S. If I understand you correctly about instructor who got 8 dan and made "Wadokai" DVD..I think he certainly deserves the 8 dan and his video is really very useful. Of course, this is my personal opinion. Not for discussion.

Hi Aslan,

By JKF you mean Japan Karate Federation right? They have a separate test.
You must perform 2 kata.
That test is also very difficult to pass, especially at 8th dan.
No one ever passes it on the first try.
The funny thing is that in the past JKF 8th dan test was considered to be the most difficult test in Japanese karate.
But somehow I know a few Wadokai people who managed to pass the JKF 8th dan but still is failing the Wadokai 8th dan.
So what does that mean now? That Wadokai 8th dan test is harder to pass than the JKF 8th dan? Perhaps.

Not sure which 8th dan Wadokai master you are talking about but...(because Sakagami has videos out, Ajari has videos out, Arakawa Sensei is a 7th dan..and Suzuki Sensei is techincally WIKF so...I don't know of any other 8th dan Wadokai master who published a video).
If we are talking about the same person then in my opinion he is mentally ill and his last name does not begin with S.....and he thinks he is the Wado master of the Universe.
Wadokai people in Japan think he is crazy too, but I know him better than most people and in my opinion he is crazy.
He wrote a letter to the Wadokai complaining about the incompetent of Arakawa Sensei because he did not know how to teach kata correctly at the last Wadokai World Championships..lol.. He said Arakawa Sensei was doing it wrong.
He recently published a new set of videos and claimed his way was the correct way and that the Wadokai Technical committee was wrong......really funny stuff. The moral of this story is that excessive alcohol abuse rots your brain cells and makes you do funny things.

Hi Gusei 21
Thanks again , but I guess I'm confused completely.))))) If JKF recognizes Wadokai, why it has own grading? For what it is cloned, overlapping the dan grading exams?

Perhaps I really have got it wrong about the holder of the eighth dan.)
I have a video Arakawa for twenty years and I consider it's exellent standard.

[Gusei21]

Hi Gusei 21
Thanks again , but I guess I'm confused completely.))))) If JKF recognizes Wadokai, why it has own grading? For what it is cloned, overlapping the dan grading exams?

Perhaps I really have got it wrong about the holder of the eighth dan.)
I have a video Arakawa for twenty years and I consider it's exellent standard.

Yes, I also enjoyed Arakawa Sensei's video and I consider him one of the best Wado instructors we've ever had.
And as Gary asked, who can grade Arakawa Sensei to 8th dan? Apparently Arakawa Sensei has the same question. :)
As for the JKF, many countries around the world have national federations. And many of these federations issue their own dan grade.
This is a very common practice.
Some people only get graded by their national federation instead of by their style group.
Depending on the country grading by your style group is meaningless.
In Germany they do not recognize dan grades from the Wadokai. Only the dan grade from the German Karate Federation matter.
In America you cannot get a National federation dan grade unless you already have the same dan grade from your style group.
So rules differ from country to country. In Japan you can get dan grades from both the JKF and also from your style group and the level can be different.
That is why Arakawa Sensei has a 9th dan from the JKF but a 7th dan from the Wadokai. Takagi Sensei has both an 8th dan from the JKF and an 8th dan from the Wadokai.