Renzoku waza

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
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mezusmo
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by mezusmo »

Gusei21 wrote:
mezusmo wrote: In yoshinkan aikido pragmatism is clearly evident in demonstrations.As for taijiquan have u seen Chen Zhonghua and his practical method?
I apologize for the topic drift.
mezusmo
Mezusmo.

Isn't Yoshinkan and Tomiki an exception to the rule?
There are a few tough guys like Robert Mustard around who can clean your clock but in my experience people like Robert Mustard are rare in the aikido world.

Hi Guesi21

In a way yes,but is not yoshinkan and tomiki represented around the globe to a decent standard?
I would think there is exceptions to the rule inside Aikikai like Kazuo Chiba for example....

mezusmo
Martin Duffy
mezusmo
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by mezusmo »

Anyway i will let the discussions get back to wado ryu.

Mezusmo
Martin Duffy
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by wadoka »

Thought I would tackle the first phrase...

Uchi means house. Hold both arms out in front and the space between could be described as uchi.

Okuri ashi is the action of body movement where the lead foot in the desired direction of movement is the first to move followed by the other. Unless transitioning to a new stance the original stance dimensions are preserved. The movement initiation is not via any overtly dynamic thrust into the floor by the non-moving foot, which may lead to an upward trajectory of the centre of gravity, but more through phases where the lead foot friction with the floor is reduced, not necessarily to zero by too much lifting of the front foot, whereupon a natural 'falling forward' of the centre of gravity will occur as it is only full supported by the rear leg and the resultant force caused by gravity and the rear leg is in the forward and downward direction, whereby I mean 'rear' to the direction of travel, once body movement has initiated it can be further supported by the rear leg by phase application of thrust on the proviso that all upward arcing centre of gravity movement is eliminated unless transitioning to a shorter stance. The rear foot is then drawn in quickly, ideally lightly skimming the floor...... and then you punch. 

This is going to be a long time, maybe even a lifetime.
claas
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by claas »

Merry Christmas everyone,

About moving by opening the stance with the lead foot and immediately closing with the following foot...

Of course there are many ways but reducing friction is needed when the direction of the lead foot friction force is against advancing (or retreating). If the stance has mild tension in the hips so that there is pretty much zero friction between the feet and floor you might even want to add it to the front foot to the opposite direction. In other words draw a little. (Also it is possible to have a stance where the friction is from the beginning "reversed" so that both feet draw.)

All this should of course happen smoothly and without telegraphing. After lots of practice perhaps what should be dogma is naturalness, no up and down and no telegraphing. The body will perform the rest by itself. Sometimes people ask should there be a back leg push in various techniques where the general advice is "do not push". Of course there is a push but it should happen more automatically. So there is no reason to stress the importance of the push.



A competing friend of mine said that in their style (?perhaps more in the competition coaching tradition of theirs?) the advice is to push with both legs and then when you release the front foot you advance. The stance is also very long. I feel this might be good if you only think of advancing and retreating like in fencing but perhaps not so good if you think about three dimensional movement. I only wanted to take this up because there might be people who have heard the same teaching so it might be good to mention, to avoid confusion.
Lasse Candé
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by wadoka »

Hi Claas, (Santa Claas?)

Conveying the dont push but push is the difficult part of teaching where people want an answer in words as opposed to an answer in feeling. The propulsion is blended into the process hence telling people not to push, first.

We constantly remind people about dropping their weight and by all accounts we should end up in seiza!

Merry Xmas everyone.
zim
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by zim »

wadoka wrote:Hi Claas, (Santa Claas?)

Conveying the dont push but push is the difficult part of teaching where people want an answer in words as opposed to an answer in feeling. The propulsion is blended into the process hence telling people not to push, first.

We constantly remind people about dropping their weight and by all accounts we should end up in seiza!

Merry Xmas everyone.
Repeat the mantra. Move with your body. Move with your body. Move with your body.

Sounds simple and intuitive in practice but then comes reality.

Happy holidays y'all (whatever your flavour).

Cheers

Chris
Chris Zimmerman
claas
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by claas »

wadoka wrote:Hi Claas, (Santa Claas?)
I was asked to do the honour but noticed I have a yellow shirt and that it's not Easter! :D
(My mother had to perform. Luckily there were no kids. She wouldn't have fooled them.)



The idea that analysis and teaching mantras are not the same thing is a very good point. On a forum all this easily becomes difficult to put in the right context. We seem to need the words and a visual input. Many times a feeling. Still, with an effort and mutual respect we can share thoughts here also that support the training. A forum is a forum and the dojo is the dojo.

Most people really can never understand analysis of movement by their correct mechanical terms. Many times on the other hand terms are thrown but the essential phenomena are not mentioned. Still the ones without the analytic knowledge can many times understand every teaching and with enough training perform well. So exact analysis is not as important as the teachings. Still if you have the tools, go ahead. Sometimes it makes it easier to understand the teachings and at least answer questions or decide wisely not to.

Funnily I get the feeling that many people with very good knowledge about mechanics mess this kind of stuff up and the ones with just some very basic knowledge but more time training and teaching cover the essential stuff with their correct physical terms with a better ratio. Feeling seems to be a better teacher than academic ways, if we want to put the two against each other artificially like this. Thinking is good, training a necessity.
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Re: Renzoku waza

Post by wadoka »

Amen and awomen to that.
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