Gusei21 wrote:...As for tanto tori and idori...I find it pointless. No one knows how to teach it so why bother? The only idori footage that I know in existence of Otsuka Sensei is owned by Ohgami Sensei I believe. Otsuka Sensei never really taught it. All these old guys claim they learned it from him but from what I have seen all the movements are empty. There is nothing there. Just people apeing Otsuka Sensei's movement without understanding his body mechanics. So why bother? I'd rather focus my attention on the stuff he taught, on stuff that is approachable.
I'd have to agree with this.
Admittedly I have only "played" with Wado Idori (with both my original instructor and the likes of Hakoishi sensei (at courses mainly)), but compared to the stuff that you would learn in a traditional / Koryu jujutsu dojo - they seem to lack teeth ime.
Gusei21 wrote:...As for tanto tori and idori...I find it pointless. No one knows how to teach it so why bother? The only idori footage that I know in existence of Otsuka Sensei is owned by Ohgami Sensei I believe. Otsuka Sensei never really taught it. All these old guys claim they learned it from him but from what I have seen all the movements are empty. There is nothing there. Just people apeing Otsuka Sensei's movement without understanding his body mechanics. So why bother? I'd rather focus my attention on the stuff he taught, on stuff that is approachable.
I'd have to agree with this.
Admittedly I have only "played" with Wado Idori (with both my original instructor and the likes of Hakoishi sensei (at courses mainly)), but compared to the stuff that you would learn in a traditional / Koryu jujutsu dojo - they seem to lack teeth ime.
Gary
How so Gary.? If tanto is kata in the same way that kihon kumite is kata then perhaps its raison d’être doesn't intend it to have *teeth* ??
As I understand it, and in my experience, in traditional Japanese Koryu there are kata that are educational, but there are also ones that are more directly combative in their intentions.
If Otsuka saw them as "educational" within the Wado pedagogy of things then that's fine, but as I understand it, the SYR/TSR/YSR originals were designed to be combative.
I feel that alternatives and choices feature in Ohtsuka meijin's philosophy for wado ryu quite a bit. Its softness often belies its strength and - sometimes touted as the 'thinking man's martial art' - I feel there is, woven through the fabric of wado ryu, a subtle facility for change for those hampered by the entrenched mindset or mindlessness of enmity, violence and warfare. Less esoteric than Aikido It has a similar message at times, it has a long way to go yet though but like the man is often quoted as saying: "Wado is not finished.!! " Perhaps any teeth it has are shown in its smile.?
I feel that alternatives and choices feature in Ohtsuka meijin's philosophy for wado ryu quite a bit. Its softness often belies its strength and - sometimes touted as the 'thinking man's martial art' - I feel there is, woven through the fabric of wado ryu, a subtle facility for change for those hampered by the entrenched mindset or mindlessness of enmity, violence and warfare. Less esoteric than Aikido It has a similar message at times, it has a long way to go yet though but like the man is often quoted as saying: "Wado is not finished.!! " Perhaps any teeth it has are shown in its smile.?
oneya
Holey Moley....
Did you just use the word 'aikido' in this forum?....bad bad bad...
My point is that I do want to do Otsuka Sensei's tantotori and idori. I just find that current day Wado can't teach me what Otsuka Sensei did with his idori and tanto tori so I have to go elsewhere if I want to be like Otsuka Sensei in that regard but this is just a personal journey of mine. I don't care how his son does it or how other people might do it. I want to learn from a subject matter expert.
If I need plumbing done in my house I will not call the electrician, I will call the plumber. The electrican might know some basic plumbing but I would defer to the subject matter expert. If I want to learn the SYR tanto and idori of Otsuka Sensei then why am I going to learn a watered down version? I am now going to Wado hell.....
Ah sorry for the triple bad Bob, in my defence I was thrashing around for hustings with a similar message from a lesser sandpit and stumbled into the big bloomers brigade. I will try to improve my seiza to mend my ways.
I understand completely what you say about Tanto dori and I agree there are meagre wado sources available now so re-tracing Ohtsuka meijin’s footsteps is sometimes inevitable. Having lost my guide and finding no suitable alternatives a few miles back I am now faced with a similar conundrum for my personal journey. I am beginning to feel like a meerkat.
I think something is getting lost in translation.
I have no idea what you mean.
It is very nice that you are from Russia.
It is also nice that you are a man.
I have no clue what sort of man you are except I am concluding that you admire Suzuki Sensei.
And Suzuki Sensei was a great Wado man so there is much to admire in him.
Following Suzuki Sensei is a good thing.
You are right, my English is not good. Sorry.
The most funny thing, that I'm not a member WIKF. I am JKF Wadokai branch. But like many wado people in Europe, I admire Suzuki (RIP) Including for his tantdori.
It doesn't matter to me if you are left handed or right handed or straight or gay or green or purple.
It doesn't matter to me if you are left handed or right handed or straight or gay or green or purple. [/quote}
It sounds too rude.
Hi Alsan,
Sorry, don't mean to be rude. What I mean is just that we do karate here...your background or other attributes do not matter.
We have many people here. All very different but we all have Wado in common. That is the only thing that matters. I will even speak to people who voted for George Bush twice.