Non-white Gis

[Wado heretic]

White does represent purity and cleanliness in Japanese society, however it also carries the implication of death. For example; in a traditional Japanese wedding the women wears white to represent the "death" of her former familial ties.

In the era of the Samurai, under perfect circumstances, white would be worn for performing Seppuku. Again carrying the connotation of death, but also representing the return to purity and a release from dishonour for the individual performing Seppuku. Be warned that this is a heavily simplified explanation and that the matter remains hotly debated by Japanese cultural historians.

On why white has been the traditional colour of Keikogi is perhaps a more difficult question to answer. I have always felt Dave Lowry’s speculation that the material base of Keikogi come from the hemp hanten of Japan’s early 20th century Firefighters to be intriguing. However I suspect financial reasons to be the best explanation, keikogi suffer a lot of wear and tear and need replacing often. It would simply make no sense for a person to waste money on dying something that could well get torn every training session, so it’d make more sense to simply leave it the colour it was fabricated in.

Apparently James Mitose, of Kosho Ryu Kenpo Jujutsu infamy, is the one whom introduced the black Keikogi to America. His supposed reasoning was to show that what he taught was a war art, completely distinct from the Karate and Jujutsu introduced by the Japanese immigrant population to Hawaii. Perhaps all it needed was this opening of the flood gates for all the other colours of the rainbow to find there way onto Keikogi across the world.

[kyudo]

It would simply make no sense for a person to waste money on dying something that could well get torn every training session, so it’d make more sense to simply leave it the colour it was fabricated in.

As a matter of fact: hemp nor cotton are white when fabricated. Their natural color is cream. It takes time and effort to bleach it.

[Wado heretic]

That looks white enough to me. No intent to be facetious but just to show I am not making a spurious claim. I have also seen in person white unbleached cotton, but you do have me with hemp. No arguing that you need to bleach that to make it white.

[oneya]

Hi,

The question of white or black dogi is missing the point of what has gone before here.
White as a colour in relation to Purity or Tradition has no bearing, it is simply a question of appearance and reality.

The question was whether washing the black dogi makes it cleaner than the white dogi or simply gives the impression of being cleaner given the same laundry process.

The same laundry process for either dogi would produce the same effect one would think and if this is so, the rest must be illusion.

The question then becomes are you satisfied with the illusion,

If so can we (do we) unwittingly apply the same logic of illusion to the practice of wado ryu and other aspects of our lives.?

Or in wado ryu do you continue to search for the reality using renshu as the vehicle

練 = Ren = to polish ones style or to discipline one’s self.
習 = Shu = to learn.

This was not a critique, I'm was just wrestling with aspects of appearances and realities here and how we can confuse the two or actually deceive ourselves with all manner of human frailties.

Incidentally when we talk of ‘Ren’ there is another interesting Japanese caution:

畳水練 of tatamisuiren – which roughly translates as:

Book learning is as useless as practicing swimming on tatami.

oneya

[mspain]

White hat, black hat.

MSPain

[oneya]

White hat, black hat.

MSPain

Absolutely Mike, the illusion of truth, morality and heroism was assigned by Hollywood westerns for years using the White hat / Black hat model.

Reality on the other hand - the black Hakama worn in the Ohtsuka photograph above is (for me) a logical use where movement in pleated or folds in material is easier to discern in white Hakama than black where shadows merge with the darker colour - so the use of deception might be deliberate.

oneya

[mspain]

There have been quite a few studies of color and associations with color. And further, studies of black and/versus white. One study I glanced at even suggested there was a neurological connection to black and white... sorry... I didn't "study" the study so I can't give any further details on that one.

At least in the US, as you allude to, I am pretty sure that people older than 30 would have very predictable reactions to the colors.

And still, at lease where we train, it has to do with what and how I have been taught in the past and nothing more.

An interesting discussion, though.

MSPain

[oneya]

One study I glanced at even suggested there was a neurological connection to black and white...

I wonder if a neurological connection might not be very difficult to prove Mike but a psychological connection can be established as a conditioning process coming down through the ages where 'black' has a more sinister connotation and has been used as a psychological tool as a result.

In terms of heijoshin a question might arise: if we are prepared to accept the colour as a 'cover up' in dogi appearance how accepting might we unwittingly be of this process in our everyday lives..?

oneya

[mspain]

I am out of the dogi color part of this. In our training place it is just "tradition". (Psychologically "beaten" into my brain?????) It was never explained to my why, only that other colors were not allowed - as were Tae Kwon Do uniforms not allowed, no matter what color. Some of the students were allowed to wear a T-shirt with gi pants when it was really warm... I didn't.

As for the study to find out if black and white had neurological significance, what I recall is the study used the speed of reaction to the color to tell the difference between neurological and psychological response. That is about as much as I remember of what I glanced at on that one. It did sound interesting at the time.

I think I understand that it would be much easier to show psychological connections. I just offer the study tidbit in the fray. I obviously don't have enough to do today!! heh heh. Today I will be wearing the same gi I took to practice last night. We couldn't practice because in the area we practice volunteers are making dirt micro organism balls to help the flooded people in Bangkok. How's that for dirt on the floor????? I will try to upload a picture if I can figure out how to get it off my phone!!!

MSPain

[mspain]

PIC039.jpg (100.41 KiB) Viewed 8339 times

This is where we practice at the university. The brown balls (some are white, indicating dry already) are dirt with some kind of micro organism that is supposed to help take away the odor from flooding and I think also kill some bacteria. The balls will be sent to Bangkok for the people to use.

Incidentally, one of our students (one that I know of) left today to help with whatever they are planning to do with the old airport in Bangkok (Don Muang Airport) to help get it back in shape. Volunteer work - have to commend him for that. Foreignors technically are not allowed to volunteer any type of work unless they have a work permit.

MSPain