Non-white Gis

[monkey mind]

I'm simply trying to ask "why to do" rather than express "hate to do" or anything remotely close like that. Sorry if my attempt at open discussion & friendly debate came across as disrespect, wriggling or being argumentative. As for charging me with negligence in regards to renshu, I'm not sure where that comes from. I already stated that I see caring for my gi as part of my practice.

[mspain]

I was merely using our dojo ceremony and Hirano's words as examples, not trying to imply hating anything. Hirano used that as an example of his understanding of human nature.

Further, the white in our dojo represents pureness and willingness to learn, among other things. These are just things I have learned in my journey through karate, again, not implying anything but trying to answer the question of why. There are some dojos in JIKC that now wear non-white gis. I am not in that organization anymore so I don't know what brought that on.

In Thailand when a female goes to stay in a temple, they wear white in the temple I stayed at. I guess for the same reasons of purety of mind and willingness to learn or reaffirm their previous learning.

I certainly am not an expert on Japanese culture, but I have been told, for whatever that is worth, that white is used for the purposes stated above in many instances.

Not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers, Monkey Mind, just trying to tell you the reasons we wear white in our dojos. More because of tradition than anything else.

Mike Spain

[mspain]

By the way, the way I understand it, not having lots of patches, different colors, stripes, etc. on dogis has to do with humbleness.

Mike

[oneya]

I'm simply trying to ask "why to do" rather than express "hate to do" or anything remotely close like that. Sorry if my attempt at open discussion & friendly debate came across as disrespect, wriggling or being argumentative. As for charging me with negligence in regards to renshu, I'm not sure where that comes from. I already stated that I see caring for my gi as part of my practice.

No one has charged you with negligence monkey mind so the air of injured innocence is a tad transparent - you asked for reasons and that is precisely what were given . If this irks you ask yourself why when my intention is to reply to your question. I am using old reasoning why cleanliness of your dogi and personal cleanliness in the dojo is actually a matter for renshu because renshu comes in many forms. Simple regard for your fellow student's health and should be reason enough. It's the same for everyone, Polishing the spirit and will power is part of the wado deal.


oneya

[monkey mind]

your wriggling and argument instead of renshu...

This sounded to me like an admonishment of sorts. Maybe I misinterpreted & maybe the nature of this kind of communication was a contributing factor. Anyway, I'm happy to lay that issue aside. Courtesy, cleanliness, humility, dedication, respect, purity - these are all virtues we can practice in many ways, both within and outside of the dojo. I mean, ultimately all of life can be considered wado practice in this sense, or alternatively martial arts training is just part of a wider project of self-development that manifests in many ways.

So, maybe another reason to wear white is precisely because it's the hardest color to keep clean?

[oneya]

So, maybe another reason to wear white is precisely because it's the hardest color to keep clean?

This is precisely my point Monkey Mind - with black dogi you can cover it up and forget it - with white dogi it takes continuous effort. This is renshu.

oneya

[oneya]

Of course if it is simply a matter of preference for black dogi...?

oneya

[claas]

In the Wado community I think it is a beautiful thing that there is not much playing around with different kinds of clothing, including belts. Of course there are exceptions.

When people do not think about cool clothes that they are allowed to use after a certain point nor trying to dress up to look very special, they focus better on the training itself and see through this clothing layer, I speculate.

The only way to show that you are good is to actually show it.

[Mark]

So, maybe another reason to wear white is precisely because it's the hardest color to keep clean?

This is precisely my point Monkey Mind - with black dogi you can cover it up and forget it - with white dogi it takes continuous effort. This is renshu.

oneya

Renshu is all very well, but what about the principle of not wasting energy? Why waste energy scrubbing a white gi when a black one requires much less effort? (Just kidding.)

In all seriousness, the idea of white representing purity only means something if you think it does. It doesn't have any intrinsic meaning in and of itself. In our club, as with most if not all wado clubs, we expect people to wear white gis. But once in a while someone joins our club having come from another style, and if they already own a gi of a different colour, they're allowed to keep it. It makes the line-up look a bit untidy if the odd person is wearing a different colour, but that's a very minor consideration compared to the essential business of how good their technique is or isn't.

To take things even further, many schools of other martial arts either don't use uniforms at all, or just use a particular colour track suit as a uniform, for example. Personally, I don't have any particularly strong feelings about it either way. The uniform is really an arbitrary choice, and any meaning you attach to it is really inside you, and not a property of the uniform. Though having said that, I will temper it with this:

When I was training for my 1st Dan, my instructor was giving me and another student some extra tuition to focus on some details that we didn't have time to go into in the regular class. Since these were not formal lessons, but just very informal training in an empty office building to which we had access, we turned up wearing tracksuit bottoms and T-shirts. Well, for whatever reason, it just didn't feel right not wearing a gi to train.

One last thought, on a purely practical note: black gis tend to fade with time and end up looking a patchy grey colour.

[oneya]

I think you may have missed my point Mark, which was more about perception, rationalisation, self deception and renshu rather than black or white dogi. In strategic matters these aspects can be costly. In reality even more so.

oneya