Non-white Gis

[monkey mind]

I’ve been thinking about this lately & recent threads & assorted asides have spurred me to raise the question here. It’s about the question of standard (white) gis vs. alternative (black, striped, whatever) gis. I understand there are issues of personal taste here, but is there something else behind all the dismissive/negative comments regarding alternative gi styles? Is it just about “tradition”? If so, is this aspect of tradition really that important?

Regardless of tradition, I think a good quality gi is very appropriate gear in which to train (freedom of movement, durability, good for throws, etc.). But what has the color got to do with this? I have no beef with white gis in theory & for indoor training on a nice, clean floor I’m happy to wear white. The trouble is that my group trains outdoors on a concrete surface that is practically impossible to keep clean. The result is that our gis get very dirty (escpecially after maegeri practice) & washing just doesn’t get all the dirt out. We end up looking kind of grungy. I suppose we could apply heavy amounts of bleach but that would end up shortening our gis’ lifespans. Sometimes I think it would just be nicer if we could wear black. At least we’d look a lot cleaner.

Personally, I don’t like the look of striped or brightly colored gis. And I think it’s good for a group to be uniform in their uniforms. But really, what’s wrong with trying some alternative to pure white? Thanks for your comments.

[oneya]

The result is that our gis get very dirty (escpecially after maegeri practice) & washing just doesn’t get all the dirt out.

So it wouldn't get all the dirt out from Black dogi either.? Can we assume the dogi is black to cover up the fact that the dogi is dirty.?

oneya

[mspain]

The most important part of karate training should be to train the mind and way of thinking. Rather than having a class of students looking different, and therefore unorganized, many schools have general guidelines. Especially traditional karate schools. In our school students do not pay to train. The only thing they pay for is their own gi and their kyu belts if they pass an examination. We tried letting them buy their own belts before and they waited months to buy a belt and a certain color belt then had different shades on different students..... and not from washing the belts or over use.

This is from http://www.livestrong.com/article/38276 ... karate-gi/ . Not the complete page, but relevent to the karate gi.

Karate practitioners wear a standard uniform known as a gi. The outfit consists of loose white trousers and a loose white jacket cinched with colored belts. The sleeves and trouser legs of the gi are a few inches shorter than normal clothes and have billowy cuffs to help promote ease of movement and to prevent any accidental entanglement. Most gi construction features sturdy seams and lightweight material made from polyester and cotton blends to provide comfort, protection and durability. Despite being synonymous with karate, the gi has its roots in judo.

History

In 1892, Kano Jigoro, often known simply as Kano, invented the discipline of judo, a martial art featuring a variety of throws and takedowns. Fifteen years later, in 1907, Kano devised the traditional gi as a standard judo uniform. He designed the gi to have long sleeves and trouser legs to help maximize gripping surface and control when conducting judo's many grappling techniques. The judo gi's popularity soon made it a fixture in most martial arts training, including karate.

Significance

Kano chose to make the gi white to represent the qualities of purity, simplicity and humility. Each of Kano's students wore the same white gi regardless of social class, reinforcing the idea that all students begin as equals. These same principles continue to influence modern martial arts training.

I hope that helps some what to understand why the white gi.

MSPain

[monkey mind]

The result is that our gis get very dirty (escpecially after maegeri practice) & washing just doesn’t get all the dirt out.

So it wouldn't get all the dirt out from Black dogi either.? Can we assume the dogi is black to cover up the fact that the dogi is dirty.?

oneya

Yes, a black gi would simply mask stubborn dirt stains better. May I ask, is this merely a practical observation or are you hinting at something deeper?

[oneya]

I guess I am asking if masking the truth is preferred to veracity in the practice of wado ryu.

oneya

[monkey mind]

The most important part of karate training should be to train the mind and way of thinking. Rather than having a class of students looking different, and therefore unorganized, many schools have general guidelines. Especially traditional karate schools. In our school students do not pay to train. The only thing they pay for is their own gi and their kyu belts if they pass an examination. We tried letting them buy their own belts before and they waited months to buy a belt and a certain color belt then had different shades on different students..... and not from washing the belts or over use.

This is from http://www.livestrong.com/article/38276 ... karate-gi/ . Not the complete page, but relevent to the karate gi.

Karate practitioners wear a standard uniform known as a gi. The outfit consists of loose white trousers and a loose white jacket cinched with colored belts. The sleeves and trouser legs of the gi are a few inches shorter than normal clothes and have billowy cuffs to help promote ease of movement and to prevent any accidental entanglement. Most gi construction features sturdy seams and lightweight material made from polyester and cotton blends to provide comfort, protection and durability. Despite being synonymous with karate, the gi has its roots in judo.

History

In 1892, Kano Jigoro, often known simply as Kano, invented the discipline of judo, a martial art featuring a variety of throws and takedowns. Fifteen years later, in 1907, Kano devised the traditional gi as a standard judo uniform. He designed the gi to have long sleeves and trouser legs to help maximize gripping surface and control when conducting judo's many grappling techniques. The judo gi's popularity soon made it a fixture in most martial arts training, including karate.

Significance

Kano chose to make the gi white to represent the qualities of purity, simplicity and humility. Each of Kano's students wore the same white gi regardless of social class, reinforcing the idea that all students begin as equals. These same principles continue to influence modern martial arts training.

I hope that helps some what to understand why the white gi.

MSPain

Thanks for the detailed reply. I certainly appreciate the reasons for uniformity in class as described above. As for Kano's reason for choosing a white color, it makes nice sense in the abstract. But in what conditions did he train? And was he responsible for doing his own laundry?

Just to be clear, I'm not proposing that we all, or any particular group of us, start wearing black gis. In the dojo I will certainly continue to follow my sensei and wear white. I only want to know what is behind all the comments that denigrate other options. And to respectfully ask if there's no room for other, practical considerations in considering gi color/style.

[oneya]

And was he responsible for doing his own laundry?

Washing your own dogi is considered renshu.

oneya

[monkey mind]

I guess I am asking if masking the truth is preferred to veracity in the practice of wado ryu.

oneya

This is a fair point & I understand the idea of considering one's treatment of the gi as an element of one's overall practice. My wife used to offer to iron my gi for me & I told her that I wanted to do it myself as part of my training (she never did get that one). But your point begs the question: is a clean appearance important at all or do we only wash our gis to get the smell out? If clean appearance is important, then is it fair to expect the same standard of a group that trains outdoors as one that trains indoors? And to play devil's advocate, are there really no times when masking the truth is preferred to veracity in our practice? What if we're hurt or exhausted in a kumite match? Of course, I agree we should never try to fool ourselves with regards to our practice of wado..

[oneya]

But you are the only opponent that truly matters and your wriggling and argument instead of renshu verifies this.

If you cannot be bothered with you why should anyone else..?

oneya

[mspain]

Part of our dojo ceremony includes: Factors for Mental Attitude; 1, Initiative; 2, Responsibility; 3, Pride.

Also, the originator of JIKC, my original style of karate in Hawaii, Kiyohisa Hirano had a saying: When people are learning something or have to do something, there are 3 stages: Hate to do; Have to do; Want (like, love) to do.

Aside from the color of the gi, caring for and maintainence of the gi should help us to learn these ideas, just the same as cleaning and maintaining the dojo floor.

When I was still working, I often used the "hate to, have to, want to" series when faced with a task I didn't enjoy. No matter how much I hated to do, had to do, or wanted to do, the task still had to be done. Sometimes I even thought, "Why do they do it this way when it could be done another way?"

MSPain