Kumite in Wado

[majin29]

Hi everyone. Just got back from another exhilerating Wado class. At the end of each month, we do sparring. I've sparred before and have enjoyed it. Tonight I had a chance to go toe to toe with my sensei. What a humbling experience. Boy is he fast!

Another adult student was talking to me in between rounds and said she found all the Wado techniques went right out the window and it seemed more like a free-for-all with very basic waza employed (combinations, side kick, front kick, the odd round house). My question to you seasoned fellows (and ladies) is do you find that you DO apply more Wado as you progress as far as sparring kumite goes? I noticed some of the higher ranks were doing sweeps and their Taisabaki was very good- reading the attacker and shifting then hitting them as they passed by. Pretty impressive.

Also, are there any things to be mindful of as far as training goes for this? I'm only going once a week but will be going more in 2012. I practice all of my kata and basic techniques at home but sparring is one avenue that one cannot really prepare on their own for it would seem.

[claas]

Hi,

I think that anyone who studies the principle of good movement starts moving better. We have to realize that basics are basics - they are training tools and not every time tools for direct usage. Of course some techniques are more of the "usage tools" than others. Also a very important point to notice is that sparring is a place where you should test yourself and find your weaknesses. I believe many people would get more out of it if they were not so frightened to "score less points" than the partner but try to improve in their real aims instead.

Also, I think that it is not as simple as to say formalized stuff are basics for sparring. In the learning process also sparring is basics to the formalized stuff. Many people do kihon kumite in a "too formalized" way, by which I mean they leave a lot out of it to the point that it isn't kihon kumite anymore.

And you can improve your fighting skills very much by yourself by practicing techniques, moving and rhythm of your body and mind. You might not be able to increase the amount of pairwork as much as you can improve what you take with you to the sessions.

[majin29]

Hi,

I think that anyone who studies the principle of good movement starts moving better. We have to realize that basics are basics - they are training tools and not every time tools for direct usage. Of course some techniques are more of the "usage tools" than others. Also a very important point to notice is that sparring is a place where you should test yourself and find your weaknesses. I believe many people would get more out of it if they were not so frightened to "score less points" than the partner but try to improve in their real aims instead.

Also, I think that it is not as simple as to say formalized stuff are basics for sparring. In the learning process also sparring is basics to the formalized stuff. Many people do kihon kumite in a "too formalized" way, by which I mean they leave a lot out of it to the point that it isn't kihon kumite anymore.

And you can improve your fighting skills very much by yourself by practicing techniques, moving and rhythm of your body and mind. You might not be able to increase the amount of pairwork as much as you can improve what you take with you to the sessions.

Thanks for the input! I had a chance to see two sensei sparring and they were so fast and could read each other's movements so well. It's a nice thing to aspire to someday.

[oneya]

Hi,

I think that anyone who studies the principle of good movement starts moving better. We have to realize that basics are basics - they are training tools and not every time tools for direct usage. Of course some techniques are more of the "usage tools" than others. Also a very important point to notice is that sparring is a place where you should test yourself and find your weaknesses. I believe many people would get more out of it if they were not so frightened to "score less points" than the partner but try to improve in their real aims instead.

Also, I think that it is not as simple as to say formalized stuff are basics for sparring. In the learning process also sparring is basics to the formalized stuff. Many people do kihon kumite in a "too formalized" way, by which I mean they leave a lot out of it to the point that it isn't kihon kumite anymore.

And you can improve your fighting skills very much by yourself by practicing techniques, moving and rhythm of your body and mind. You might not be able to increase the amount of pairwork as much as you can improve what you take with you to the sessions.

Good post claas.

oneya..

[andyb28]

Hi,

I think that anyone who studies the principle of good movement starts moving better. We have to realize that basics are basics - they are training tools and not every time tools for direct usage. Of course some techniques are more of the "usage tools" than others. Also a very important point to notice is that sparring is a place where you should test yourself and find your weaknesses. I believe many people would get more out of it if they were not so frightened to "score less points" than the partner but try to improve in their real aims instead.

Also, I think that it is not as simple as to say formalized stuff are basics for sparring. In the learning process also sparring is basics to the formalized stuff. Many people do kihon kumite in a "too formalized" way, by which I mean they leave a lot out of it to the point that it isn't kihon kumite anymore.

And you can improve your fighting skills very much by yourself by practicing techniques, moving and rhythm of your body and mind. You might not be able to increase the amount of pairwork as much as you can improve what you take with you to the sessions.

Excellent post, I have been through this myself, I used to think it was important to try to win or get the better of the people I was sparring as it helped my own development, but thats so wrong and only now do I see what I was then and laugh about it. I could adapt my sparring techniques to a handful and will probably do quite well against most people, but thats not helping me learn anything new. I will now often come out worse off, but I am developing and learning new things. Recently I have been working on distance and opening and closing it. For example we have a couple of long limbed guys at the club and they want to open the distance, I need to close it and finding the right distance makes an interesting match up, when I get it wrong, I learn this the hardway from receiving a kick, close it up enough and you see them taking steps backwards to try and open it up again. Its all good fun.

You also have to be careful who you are trying new things out on, obviously you dont want to go hurting people, there is a nice balance of this at our club, the people that dont mind going a bit harder, trying new things etc adapt their fighting as soon as they are paired together.

On the drive to the dojo, I sometimes try to think of something I will try out, there are some great ideas to be gained from Suzuki's DVD's, I think the section is called His favourite techniques, or something like that.

Lastly, I would like to add that I suffered from nervous tension in sparring when I first came back to karate 3 years ago. Thinking you are going to get hurt ruins everything, standing there tensed up is just draining energy from you, it took me a while before I could stand in front of people relaxed and moving with ease. Having said that, there are still some people now that I am not as relaxed as I should be, its something I work on each week.

Andy

[majin29]

We have so much padding on that the prospect of getting hurt is really minimal. In fact, I'd prefer NOT wearing that chest protector as it impedes my kicks. I'm going to ask our sensei next time if I can pass on that. I have head, foot, hand and groin protection and I've actually sparred in clubs before with no protection. Not only can you move around more naturally but you also really know to work on your blocks and movement otherwise you're gonna get hit!

Great posts and very helpful too. Thanks again to all who responded. I'm really enjoying Wado, moreso than any other martial art I've taken. It's a unique experience in my opinion.

[go rin no sho]

Hi!

Otsuka spoke of Igata.

What do you think determines kata becoming Igata in terms of kihon kumite ? ( not sure if this subject has been dealth already somewhere else ??)

Anyway, I have found these particularly challenging:


1. Attempt to predict the attack ( many times the uke starts moving before the attack takes place. This is often seen especially in KK1)

2. Incorrect (unrealistic, the distance of the first attack starts unrealistically far away - as a bluff attack? ) Maai

3. Fixed response to a given attack (programmed mind to react in a certain way)

4. Weak attack (for example; second attacks is considered more important than the first, first being ritualized)

5. Poor zanshin - (Loosing the eye contact or loosing the preparedness after the conflict)

6. Known pair -(you know your opponent too well, as a result you know subconsiously what´s coming)

7. Rhytmic (predictable) timing

8. Practicing only the omote version ?

9. ????

GRNS

[kyudo]

What do you think determines kata becoming Igata in terms of kihon kumite ?

9. Second attack too fast after the first. (I often see uke launch the second attack immediately after the first as if it were one technique. I once even heard a high graded wadoka brag about how he had to decrease his speed for the second attack when acting as uke for Suzuki sensei because he was too fast. He didn't get that Suzuki sensei choose to not finish him of at the first attack.)

[oneya]

Hi!

Otsuka spoke of Igata.

What do you think determines kata becoming Igata in terms of kihon kumite ? ( not sure if this subject has been dealth already somewhere else ??)

Anyway, I have found these particularly challenging:


1. Attempt to predict the attack ( many times the uke starts moving before the attack takes place. This is often seen especially in KK1)

2. Incorrect (unrealistic, the distance of the first attack starts unrealistically far away - as a bluff attack? ) Maai

3. Fixed response to a given attack (programmed mind to react in a certain way)

4. Weak attack (for example; second attacks is considered more important than the first, first being ritualized)

5. Poor zanshin - (Loosing the eye contact or loosing the preparedness after the conflict)

6. Known pair -(you know your opponent too well, as a result you know subconsiously what´s coming)

7. Rhytmic (predictable) timing

8. Practicing only the omote version ?

9. ????

GRNS

Hi grns - All of these will suffer if there is no imminent danger in the attack or threat from the opponent.

If you are not 'there' actually in the reality of the threat or in danger from the attack then it is pointless.

If you allow it to become a game by just going through the motions it is igata.

oneya

[go rin no sho]

Kyudo, Good point. I think in the case you described the first attack is not a real attack - merely a fast snap-punch ?

Oneya - This is also quite common I think. As an indicative of this kind of attitude, people often smile and talk when they practice.

GRNS