syllabus differences

[shep]

I didn't realise The Academy didnt practice them, never even thought about it. I assumed from the first post they did. But anyway they are good as an inroduction to Wado movement.

shep

[WadoAJ]

I didn't realise The Academy didnt practice them, never even thought about it. I assumed from the first post they did. But anyway they are good as an inroduction to Wado movement.

shep

Hi Shep,

I think that it has been discussed on the old AKF that like ohyo gumite, sanbon gumite was born from the concept to introduce the basic of wado to westerners. (well the build up of methods has been discussed several times) Although eventually even junzuki becomes increasingly difficult, at the beginning sanbon gumite is an easier fundamental to learn then starting off with kihon gumite ipponme for example. I'm not sure though, but in my guess it was also Suzuki sensei who has introduced chudan uke 1,2 jodan uke 1,2,3,4 and maegeri uke 1,2,3,4,5,6. And if he was, was he the first to come up with this concept (or at least the one who methodically invented the series? or was it the Shotokan? Oneya?

AJ

[oneya]

Suzuki Tatsuo sensei introduced the concept of Sanbon kumite to the UK and Europe in 1965. Shotokan under Kanazawa Hirokazu sensei, who also arrived in the UK around 1964, also practiced Sanbon and Gohon kumite at that time. There were style differences in the technique and principles but essentially it was the initial method of two man drill used in the European and UK sectors.

Beyond this wado has all its other kata based on Ohtsuka meijin's koryu experiences. If I remember rightly sanbon kumite was an instructional tool for omote and ura also so it was an early introduction to a flexibility of thought and slotted nicely into the ohyo kumite that came later.

Because of the subsequent divisions and splits in the Wado ryu where syllabus may have changed to create clear lines of instruction and and individual identities, as far as I know neither JKF Wado Kai nor Wado renmei include Sanbon kumite as a syllabus item now but there will be many in the UK and Europe that have the some experience of this.

oneya

http://www.sannoya.com/

[blackcat]

The sanbon and ohyo kumite seem to be quite widely trained in Europe in all but the Wadoryu Renmei influenced groups. Teruo Kono also used the ohyo kumite so those countries which he had responsibility for Wado also took them on - I am not sure if he used the sanbon kumite or not.

Jiro Otsuka made a further two dvd's recently - the two listed at the bottom of this page:

https://www.budogu.com/categories.cfm?id=383

These have sanbon kumite on them, but different to the Tatsuo Suzuki set.


Ben

[Craven]

Hi,
Mr Sakagami’s Aiwakai doesn’t have Sanbon or Oyho Gumite in the syllabus just Kihon and Kumite Gata. The Dojo I’m connected to used to be affiliated to Mr Suzuki so originally we did learn the Sanbon and Oyho’s and we still use them as training drills, the Oyho’s are especially good for Dojo sparing. I know other styles of Karate do something called Hokei Gumite which as far as I know is based on Kata Bunkai (spit).
DJ

[blackcat]

Hi,
Mr Sakagami’s Aiwakai doesn’t have Sanbon or Oyho Gumite in the syllabus just Kihon and Kumite Gata. The Dojo I’m connected to used to be affiliated to Mr Suzuki so originally we did learn the Sanbon and Oyho’s and we still use them as training drills, the Oyho’s are especially good for Dojo sparing. I know other styles of Karate do something called Hokei Gumite which as far as I know is based on Kata Bunkai (spit).
DJ

Hi DJ

Your right - which is why I was careful to say "Wadoryu Renmei influenced groups" as Aiwakai started out as a founding member of the Wado Acadamy so some of the pair techniques and combinations within the syllabus are the same.

Hasn't Sakagami Sensei added his own ohyo gumite? He did make a video in maybe 1993 or thereabouts, showing a lot of his own favourite fighting techniques and from what I recall, it went down very well amongst Russian wadokai students.

Ben

[Tim49]

Hi,
Mr Sakagami’s Aiwakai doesn’t have Sanbon or Oyho Gumite in the syllabus just Kihon and Kumite Gata. The Dojo I’m connected to used to be affiliated to Mr Suzuki so originally we did learn the Sanbon and Oyho’s and we still use them as training drills, the Oyho’s are especially good for Dojo sparing. I know other styles of Karate do something called Hokei Gumite which as far as I know is based on Kata Bunkai (spit).
DJ

We also have Sanbon Gumite in Shikukai Karate-Do International, but they are not the same as in the Suzuki groups.

Btw Craven, I tried to PM you but your PM function is not working for me.

Tim

[Craven]

Hi Ben,

Ah yes Aiwakai was part of the Wado Academy wasn’t it, I have never found out the reason behind that particular split and I guess this is not the right place to discuss it?

I've not seen that video but I think I have a DVD from a couple of years back that may contain something, will have to check my stuff. I have done Sakagami Sensei's Ohyo’s once on a course with him & I think they were quite similar to Suzuki Sensei’s but different enough to confuse. We did practice them for a few nights back at the club but there are so many other things to learn I’m afraid they have been put on the back burner. Sakagami Sensei is up with us in a few weeks perhaps I can persuade him to go through them again?

DJ

PS sorry about the typo in my last post I’m from Yorkshire and Typing and thinking don’t come naturally up here!

[Craven]

Tim,
Have changed my settings so should work now :)
Craven

[WadoAJ]

Hi Ben,

Ah yes Aiwakai was part of the Wado Academy wasn’t it, I have never found out the reason behind that particular split and I guess this is not the right place to discuss it?

I've not seen that video but I think I have a DVD from a couple of years back that may contain something, will have to check my stuff. I have done Sakagami Sensei's Ohyo’s once on a course with him & I think they were quite similar to Suzuki Sensei’s but different enough to confuse. We did practice them for a few nights back at the club but there are so many other things to learn I’m afraid they have been put on the back burner. Sakagami Sensei is up with us in a few weeks perhaps I can persuade him to go through them again?

DJ

PS sorry about the typo in my last post I’m from Yorkshire and Typing and thinking don’t come naturally up here!

Hi DJ,

I have the DVD of Sakagami sensei which includes some kihon gumite, ohyo gumite and tanto dori. The DVD was made as "UK syllabus" or something like that. From what I recall those ohyo gumite were fairly different from Suzuki sensei's. senseis or sensei's ?

note: before posting I checked the DVD. The ohyo gumite presented there are nothing like Suzuki sensei's ohyo series. Perhaps he has been teaching otherwise, but I wouldn't know, only met Sakagami sensei once..

AJ