kuzushi waza

[WadoAJ]

As kuzushiwaza has caught my attention somewhere during my travel and being one of my favourite stuff, I thought to open this topic. I actually got this idea from wadoka, who mentioned some common errors and the ways students try to fix those errors. (mentioned at wintercourse topic)

I think wadoka mentioned the knee and the position of the body being inadequate to apply kuzushi with the body, using body parts as a facility. Like gyakuzuki is done with the body, but the fist transfers the energy.

wadoka mentioned the use of the heels. I always tell my students that the position of their foot (body) is important and then again the location of the heel and the direction of the feet.

Not really my intention to drop a question here, more a post to spark things up and allow everybody to post some of their experiences or perhaps some do have questions. I think kuzushiwaza fullfills an important role within wadoryu and therefore opened this topic. Hopefully with the contribution of the 'oldschool' AKF members and the new members here this can turn out to be an interesting topic for all.

AJ

edit: not for the sake of selfpromotion, but for those who don't have a clue what kuzushi is or perhaps are just interested, hereby a link to my website with the pages that feature my article on kuzushi including some videos. (it is twice on my site, listed under kumite and under principles, just couldn't make a choice!)

http://www.ishikawa-karate.com/kumite/kuzushiwaza.htm

http://www.ishikawa-karate.com/principles/kuzushi.htm

[Tim49]

Kuzushi is much more all encompassing than might be thought by people looking at it from the outside.

Conversely I think sometimes when we find ourselves wrestling with Japanese technical terminology we have a tendency to move the concept away from the practical end of the spectrum and further along to the mystical/exotic end.

On the other hand I also think Kuzushi as a concept is often devalued by modern Wado practitioners as it is not so easily available to those who rely on one-dimensional fistic answers to physical confrontations. But in essence it is very practical and pragmatic.

Tim

[Rayedin]

My knowledge of Wado is very basic so rather i'l stick my tuppence worth in from the perspective of a judoka, Kuzushi is hugely important, in its basic form the idea is to destroy your opponents posture/balance while maintaining your own, thus allowing someone of lesser strength to overcome someone stronger, by using circular motions and the bodies natural reactions (i.e action-reaction) it is possible with the slightest twitch to break anopponents balance in the direction you want them to go.
Beyond the breaking of the balance so long as you yourself maintain posture and balance and direct your energy in the direction in which the opponents balance is broken it becomes relatively simple to send them on their way. unfortunatly its imposible to learn kuzushi reading about it, or even being taught about it, theres a feel to getting it correct, when the moments of clarity come where all the elements come together perfectly its almost as if you dont realise it, its over before you can think about it.
This is a video of Mifune Sensei: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0SyqPgmyss, where he performs sumi Otoshi, all the elements of kuzushi are demonstrated perfectly albeit quickly!
I,m sure there are those here that have far clearer explanations of Kuzushi as it apertains to Wado. I'll look forward to them!

[wadoka]

I will follow up with more longer posts when I can. Busy at the Winter Course at the moment.

On kuzushi, we started the discussions with regards examples of kuzushi with the legs, and within judo there will be many examples of using the arms and jackets to initiate kuzushi to then take advantage of the situation.

Kazutaka Ohtsuka came round to explain an example of using arm on arm to direct some momentum along the weak direction of the opponent's stance.

Rayedin's comments about needing to feel it is important. Luckily I was on the receiving end of the demo. Problem is, it is hard for me to retell as it needs even more practice.

[Rayedin]

I,ve been thinking about ways to create Kuzushi without using the arms or taking a grip as in judo, best example i can think of personaly is when in Kumite, i find its possible with some people (though i'm yet to master it!) using combinations almost to lead someone physical first and mentaly in the direction i want them to go in order to sweep out the legs with a version of okuri ashi harai, while they circle if you time it properly when the feet draw close together theres a point of no return where the balance is in transition, if you double step and sweep quickly in the same direction of travel then you barely feel the touch of your foot against the leg as they hit one foot into the other and drop.

[WadoAJ]

I,ve been thinking about ways to create Kuzushi without using the arms or taking a grip as in judo, best example i can think of personaly is when in Kumite, i find its possible with some people (though i'm yet to master it!) using combinations almost to lead someone physical first and mentaly in the direction i want them to go in order to sweep out the legs with a version of okuri ashi harai, while they circle if you time it properly when the feet draw close together theres a point of no return where the balance is in transition, if you double step and sweep quickly in the same direction of travel then you barely feel the touch of your foot against the leg as they hit one foot into the other and drop.

Ah, you like bowling!

[shep]

I was practicing Ohyo Gumite No.8 the other night and after the back kick I was practicing placing my kicking leg both on the inside and outside of my opponent's lead leg. Placing it on the inside gives an ideal opportunity to unbalance their lead leg. It is shown and described this way in Suzuki's Karate-Do book, although he doesn't mention breaking the opponent's balance for some reason it is clearly what is happening in the photo's. But in practice I find my stability when I perform the punch is compromised because I dont have the more solid wider base I get when I place my foot on the outside. Many people when demonstrating this (including Suzuki in the Essence series) place their foot on the outside. I wonder if it is for this reason? I know Ohyo's are more pragmatic in practice than KG for example which is why I try and cover all the angles. I was wondering if anyone else feels this. Or is it just me??

shep

[WadoAJ]

I was practicing Ohyo Gumite No.8 the other night and after the back kick I was practicing placing my kicking leg both on the inside and outside of my opponent's lead leg. Placing it on the inside gives an ideal opportunity to unbalance their lead leg. It is shown and described this way in Suzuki's Karate-Do book, although he doesn't mention breaking the opponent's balance for some reason it is clearly what is happening in the photo's. But in practice I find my stability when I perform the punch is compromised because I dont have the more solid wider base I get when I place my foot on the outside. Many people when demonstrating this (including Suzuki in the Essence series) place their foot on the outside. I wonder if it is for this reason? I know Ohyo's are more pragmatic in practice than KG for example which is why I try and cover all the angles. I was wondering if anyone else feels this. Or is it just me??

shep

Hi Shep,

nice of you to bring that one up. We were practicing that as well not so long ago, I think december. I usually move to the outside, I have practised on the inside but apparentely my body has gotten rusted to move to the outside .. ;) Anyway, 'something' happened and then I threw him to the ground with my favourite throw.. As for nanahonme, for varation I often move deeper behind the opp. and sweep his left foot.

AJ

[Rayedin]

I,ve been thinking about ways to create Kuzushi without using the arms or taking a grip as in judo, best example i can think of personaly is when in Kumite, i find its possible with some people (though i'm yet to master it!) using combinations almost to lead someone physical first and mentaly in the direction i want them to go in order to sweep out the legs with a version of okuri ashi harai, while they circle if you time it properly when the feet draw close together theres a point of no return where the balance is in transition, if you double step and sweep quickly in the same direction of travel then you barely feel the touch of your foot against the leg as they hit one foot into the other and drop.

Ah, you like bowling!

I like knocking them down like bowls!, no feeling better than a perfectly timed technique, when your body reacts before you realise it. moments of perfection few and far between as they are, are part of the reason for all the years of practice. Like the feeling for kuzushi, when you try to make it happen its very difficult to get right, when you hit it correctly nothing can stop it and it seems effortless.

[Tim49]

I was practicing Ohyo Gumite No.8 the other night and after the back kick I was practicing placing my kicking leg both on the inside and outside of my opponent's lead leg. Placing it on the inside gives an ideal opportunity to unbalance their lead leg. It is shown and described this way in Suzuki's Karate-Do book, although he doesn't mention breaking the opponent's balance for some reason it is clearly what is happening in the photo's. But in practice I find my stability when I perform the punch is compromised because I dont have the more solid wider base I get when I place my foot on the outside. Many people when demonstrating this (including Suzuki in the Essence series) place their foot on the outside. I wonder if it is for this reason? I know Ohyo's are more pragmatic in practice than KG for example which is why I try and cover all the angles. I was wondering if anyone else feels this. Or is it just me??

shep

Funny this should come up.
Recently I was training with someone else who still have the Ohyo Gumite in their syllabus, and when I slipped into No.8 I found myself on the inside of the knee and it seemed perfectly natural for me to do so. They were surprised and swore blind it should have been on the outside. I was sure they were mistaken. Then I went back to my old notebooks where I was training with Suzuki Sensei twice a week at the Sobell Centre and also at Marvic House and I found that we'd been working on it with the knee to the outside. Maybe it's a moveable feast?

Tim