The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

General discussions on Wado Ryu karate and associated martial arts.
wadoka
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by wadoka »

Fine to email me Bob.
Gary
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by Gary »

I double checked the Hakoishi Idori DVD as he shows how to perform seiza in that (including the getting up and down) and he pretty much does it the way I was taught which is that he stands up in reverse to how he kneels down.

The Otsuka vid shows the left foot stepping forward before standing up (ultimately moving forward from the start point).

The hands are the same though, I have only done it that way. In my koryu group it is also done that way.

I have seen the left hand then right In Shotokan dojo and it is quite common when performing torei in sword schools.

I believe danubio is a student of Ohgami sensei, so I wonder if there is a reason why he has incorporated these changes.

Gary
Gary Needham
Walton Wado Karate Club

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Gusei21
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by Gusei21 »

So we are going from death and taxes to seiza :)

So Otsuka Sensei was very specific on the hands.
He intentionally did not want to show budo. He wanted the hands done like everyone else in normal non budo everyday Japanese society which means both hands down together.
Now here is the thing ( the cool part). We show normal but internally we are budo. In other words as we bow our heads down we do not put any weight on our hands.
This enables us to use the hands for defensive/offensive purposes. We also place our hands down on the ground with our thumbs and index fingers touching forming a diamond like figure.
This we place in a place on the ground in front of ourselves in the place in the ground that our foreheads would get slammed into the ground if someone came from behind and shoved our faces into the ground. So the diamond acts like a cushion for our forehead.
So we don't show vigilance while we remain the essense of vigilance. We don't want the other person to know we are in a perpetually heightened state of vigilance. That is true vigilance!
Same with our yoi stance. We just rest our hands on our sides. We don't show strength. Never. We want to show (express) normal. Why would we want to show strength? That would cause our oppponent to prearrange counter measures. No, We want to show normal. Unassuming. And the reality is only because our body is relaxed (normal) can we establish ten chi jin in our bodies which is what gives us a leg up on the opponent. Or as Uyeshiba Sensei said, Ichirei shikon Sangen hachiriki.

Tim Shaw writes about it wonderfully here. http://www.wadoryu.org.uk/philosophy.html
Chris Li does a great job about Uyeshiba's statement here. http://www.aikidosangenkai.org/blog/arc ... e-universe

Ten Chi Jin, not just a philosophy but a state of physical being that makes you super powerful and virtually indestructable.
Bob Nash
Gary
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by Gary »

It's also about correct posture when sitting in seiza.

Backside should be suspended above the heels.

Better posture wise but, also allows for quicker movement from seiza (a potential life saver).

But again, not obvious.
Gary Needham
Walton Wado Karate Club

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wadopaul
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by wadopaul »

I've done it a couple of different ways.
I put the left foot out when standing up, but pull the left back instead of pulling the right foot up (moving forward).

The other way was just a slight twist to the left and drop on to right knee then left and and then to come up on left foot followed by right. (I think this is how we did it, it was a long time ago, and it was a WIKF dojo, but there was definetly no stepping involved, I remember being pulled up on it.)

After attending a Shiomitsu course I now place no weight what so ever on the hands. Other than that hand positions is the same in both.
The big difference though is I've always been trained to say "Oss" at the commands in seiza - Shimoitsu says something different (not sure what it is, if any body can let me know i would appreciate it, will be at further Shiomitsu course in future). Seems "Oss" is considered a bit uncooth by him.
wadoka
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by wadoka »

In the wider Wado circles OSS/OSU is consider not to be appropriate. There are whole web pages on why so I wont get into it here.

Within the Academy, on the bow at the start of training we say "onegaishimasu" and at the end we say "arigato gozaimashita".

You can read an explanation here http://www.kendo-guide.com/terminology_ ... imasu.html
wadoka
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by wadoka »

JKF Seiza
jkf-seiza.jpg
jkf-seiza.jpg (57.33 KiB) Viewed 10573 times
JKF Wado Kai seiza
jkf-wadokai-seiza .jpg
jkf-wadokai-seiza .jpg (107.87 KiB) Viewed 10573 times
wadopaul
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by wadopaul »

Just seen these pictures - the "JKF - Wadokai" method, (the one i prefer) is the one I prcaticed in a WIKF dojo and different to how Suzuki seems to do it in the you tube posting!!

I guess my sensei there just did whatever way he was originally taught - he trained with different Japanese instructors before all the splits. I think he took gradings with Sakagami and Suzuki (he also did some Goju at one point though I doubt thats were he learned it).
oneya
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by oneya »

wadopaul wrote:
The one I practiced in a WIKF dojo and different to how Suzuki seems to do it in the you tube posting!!
Probably part of the cost of 73 years of continuous wado training..

oneya
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Gary
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Re: The only things certain in life are death and taxes.

Post by Gary »

Moving on...

In Wado kata, we teach rear heals on the floor (Junzuki etc.) - in many Iaido / kenjutsu schools the rear heal is deliberately suspended off the floor through the kata.

Kendo players also practice with the rear heal off the floor.

I understand there are different physics involved - but again, this practice (within swordsmanship) isn't a certainty or a given ime, that’s why I gave the thread the title I did. There are no absolutes within Japanese budo it would seem - and why would there be?

Even within our own system, there are divergences which, as the word “ryu” defines, are likely to happen… eventually.

I’m working all hours god sends at the moment, so when I get some space I’ll expand. There was also a very good Goju group at the Matsuri, and again soooo different to Wado…
Gary Needham
Walton Wado Karate Club

清漣館双水執流英国稽古会
http://seirenkanuk.wordpress.com/
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