Scorpion Kick

[oneya]

@Oneya: Although my initial point was about the sport aspect alone I have given it greater thought on the wider spectrum due to your question. There are Wado Ryu clubs which will of course be more inclined to the sport aspect and this will direct their style of training. With such techniques being introduced, do you reckon that it might further influence such clubs away from traditional Wado Ryu, as they may adopt these colourful techniques?

Hi
In the first place I think Matsuhisa’s kick here is perhaps closer to ura mawashi than the more gymnastic Chloe Bruce’s Scorpion kick (sasori geri ?) and for that reason alone I would have scored for Matsuhisa in the event but there are other reasons.

One of these reasons is the tradition of development in martial arts and in particular Wado ryu. The old meijin himself advocated research and development when he said:

One must withdraw from kata to produce forms with no limits else it becomes useless.

and

One must begin from fundamental movements to kata, to kumite, to changes in the kumite and to combat or else he will not improve at all

Wado kata is an example of wado reasoning and this reasoning must apply to shiai also. If we do not lead we are condemned to follow and fundamentalism is not a wado keystone. Whilst I believe that wado is a martial art of some beauty and function and our training should be centred first on the Shu aspects of Shu Ha Ri to understand that its tradition is vital to its development. Its beauty should also be recognised as an expression of its instilling a sense of freedom in the individual from its tradition of developing human capability. It is also wado lore that we should enter into kata and kumite with a creative spirit by broadening and actualising the optimum potential in each practitioner. For me: Matsuhisa’s kick is an example of this.

On the subject of balance in wado: The study of no-tsukomi (among others)is another example of wado’s pushing the envelope in the training for balance with techniques founded on the point of balance where movement is a seamless segue in the essence of balanced change from one technique to another. Matsuhisa’s kick was also an example of this.

On the matter of training for efficacy which to me is a shared responsibility of understanding the all the elements of kumite including the aspects of sen, mikiri and maai which is a fluid province of both torimi and ukemi in an interchange such as shown where a momentary lapse by Aghayev who is ultra efficient in evasion, kuzushi and nage waza was a moment filled by Matsuhisa’s kick. I doubt that Aghayev will ever be caught again though.

Your question though: Should it be taught in wado dojo? Of course it should. Mawashi geri with the instep is a relative newcomer in tournament and enterprise is a major component of wado ryu and not simply for its technical interchange but from what arises from this. I would be surprised if it had the regular dojo life span of say, mawashi geri though due to its joint and hip flexion requirements and capability being more ephemeral and undoubtedly age related. Who knows, like the cherry blossom viewing we may yet see a season of sasori geri viewing as an event for the summer Olympics. For those with the desire it should be explored though because being a wado ryu traditionalist does not mean taking a narrow view, on the contrary, the old meijin’s tradition was to adopt and adapt to the widest view possible and, it seems to me, that within the qualification of its wado ryu tradition and philosophy he advocated a requisite freedom of mind body and spirit as fundamental to that view.

oneya

[T. Kimura]

No zanchin, no kime, disconnect between limb and body...this should not be a scoring technique in my opinion. But, the taekwondozation of sport karate continues...

I must agree. This kick is, to my way of thinking, not a kick at all, but almost useless flailing of legs. I don't like it at all.

[mspain]

If the heel of the kicking foot happened to hit a Gall Bladder point (??) at the back of the head, it would not take excessive force to cause disorientation, and possibly a knockout. In my opinion, and as Mr. Kear alluded to, ura mawashigeri could have these points as targets.

I have been victim of a shot, albeit not from a scorpion kick, to the back of the head in the correct area and through a football helmet (of course that would be American football) and I can tell you it will do damage.

Mike Spain

[Wado heretic]

Sorry for the belated reply, I have been pre-occupied with other matters.

“He who is inspired by me will live, he who copies me shall die.”

- Anthology of secrets of martial arts in Chinese Oral Tradition by Yoshino Nagai.

Thank you for the answer Oneya, it makes sense. Have nothing to say to it really, aside from it being food for thought and that I agree with your assessment of it’s potential.

Another question though, an open one of course; is there a danger of losing the fundamentals when we open the gates to all influences encountered?

[oneya]

Hi heretic,

I am not altogether in favour of quotations because they seem antithetical to the spirit of wado ryu but if you must use them: then any quotation is better served if it is in context and sourced.

In this particular case it sounds like a bit of bad Hollywood grizzled through a codpiece fantasy but on to your question.

is there a danger of losing the fundamentals when we open the gates to all influences encountered?

… which has a quicksand generality about it and – as I see it - needs to be considered specifically in context to those fundamentals which are the principles of specific natural movement, and technique insofar as they relate to the wado ryu and its method of transferring this wisdom within its process.

Traditionally shu ha ri held the governance of research, development, legacy and lineage where these fundamentals of a particular ryu ha were introduced, absorbed and further developed by its practitioners over time. Wado ryu tradition took a couple of king hits because of and within its global beginnings when the reins were handed to a very few virtuoso teaching in an impatient commercial world. Given a wado ryu pedagogy that secures this process in place then I don’t see a problem in lost or diminishing fundamentals when considering external martial influences.

Of course the reality is that: not all dojo that hangs out a wado shingle have these fundamental principles of movement and technique as bedrock to their belief and quite often they don’t know that they don’t know and so produce a more homogenous bubble and squeak brand of wado lite, I would think that this is far more corrosive.

oneya

N.B. Bubble & squeek is a Brit version of hash browns or roesti, rösti, レシュティ

[Wado heretic]

Have gone back and added where the quote is taken from. So it is not missed; it is from the Anthology of secrets of martial arts in Chinese Oral Tradition by Yoshino Nagai.

Of course the reality is that: not all dojo that hangs out a wado shingle have these fundamental principles of movement and technique as bedrock to their belief and quite often they don’t know that they don’t know and so produce a more homogenous bubble and squeak brand of wado lite, I would think that this is far more corrosive.

Is that because of a break in effective transmission or is that because of an external influence? Could it not be argued that an external influence might lead to the dismissing of what has been before, in favour of something new that is held to be superior? Do those dojo exist because there is no wado ryu instructional process that secures this proper transmission in the wider world?

If the initial question were to be made more specific then it would be; is there in existence a potential danger of losing the fundamentals when faced with external influences; due to a lack of a strong or properly functioning method of transmission in the wider Wado Ryu community?

Less and less I find myself accepting the notion of style or styles, there is only so many ways to move the human body, especially when taken in accordance with the principle of Yo Ryu Bi. What is unique in Wado Ryu that must be preserved for it to retain a semblance to what Ohtsuka Meijin laid down?

Is that something simply understood through practice or is it just a layer of the illusion of style, or the idea that styles are an illusion just another trap in the cognative journey? Though I suspect that once it has all gone through the mill; all that would be discovered is that it is a case by case situation. Not a symptom of Wado Ryu or of any of the umbrella organisations, rather the manner in which a class is offered and how it is taken. However, this is an example of significant topic drift and should perhaps be moved to another topic.

[oneya]

Thanks for the quote source and the thoughtful note heretic. Could be just my cranky but I still tend to regard these manna from heaven like quotations for the most part as the doldrums or diversions that hinder our own reasoning.

Is that because of a break in effective transmission or is that because of an external influence? Could it not be argued that an external influence might lead to the dismissing of what has been before, in favour of something new that is held to be superior? Do those dojo exist because there is no wado ryu instructional process that secures this proper transmission in the wider world?

There has to be many and varied reasons now for the ‘wado lite dojo’ and much rewritten history and justification within the last half a century. If there was a break in effective transmission in the early days it was a deliberate choice because the ‘effective transmission’ was clearly there. Perhaps what wasn’t there was any desire or ability to understand the depth of wado ryu that could lead one to consider its infinite possibilities and its lifetime study. The glitz and the tournament success can be very alluring in its own right but it is simply a map and not the actual territory. I don't think the issue is a question of any superiority either one way or the other but more one of clarity and goals, especially intranational goals which don't always immediately dovetail. There is no doubt that the face of present day wado lite is turned to the tournament scene as warranty for their existence and equally there is no doubt in the journeyman wado ryu practitioner’s mind that this ‘face’ is very often a mask which is complete in itself. It has no ura to its omote despite the fact that one is ‘de facto’ part of the other.

Less and less I find myself accepting the notion of style or styles, there is only so many ways to move the human body, especially when taken in accordance with the principle of Yo Ryu Bi.

I can’t remember exactly how many times I have heard this notion of styles or style expressed without wondering if the speaker has ever stopped to consider "the human being" rather than just the human body in any pondering of just what ‘the wado ryu’ implies. The wado ryu is a vastly different animal from its Okinawan counterpart. It is precisely because of this that I don’t think we can advance the notion of Yo Ryu Bi in isolation without the wider application of Bun Bu Ryo Do being relevant along with a whole raft of other decorative dojo hangings or we run the risk of catching a glimpse of beauty only in the prism of the one eyed beholder.

What is unique in Wado Ryu that must be preserved for it to retain a semblance to what Ohtsuka Meijin laid down?

Any step towards the realm of martial art’s philosophy will show clearly where the wado lite phenomenon differs dramatically from say: Ohtuska meijin’s case where we can venture his own prior experience was the ‘external factor’ that generated the selective blending of his beliefs and experience as he did in structuring and designating the wado ryu as a ‘new’ martial art for Japan proper. It may also lead us to consider and perhaps seek an answer to the question “Why did Japan need a ‘new art’ to guide its society at that time in its history?”

oneya

[WadoAJ]

At first I hoped this to be the otoshi mawashigeri, but clearly it is not. After seeing the video I could understand why it is called the scorpion kick. I guess if there is a place and time to use it then one should. I would be surprised if this kick could do any sufficient damage.

I'm not into shiai at all so I have no idea about the motives of that. However, if they consider it a game of tag then tagged is tagged or I am missing the picture here.

AJ

[oneya]

I think some are missing a vital point here, In my opinion: Matsuhisa has used Aghayev's nukeru strategy here as pay back for the prior dump and bump. It wasn't a just a simple "he saw an opportunity " as heretic says but more deja vu - he knew Agahyev's tactics and abilities by the time they were this far into the match the he also knew the momentary itsuku was about to be repeated and had his gun primed.

oneya