Renzoku waza

[blackcat]

This is taken from the new Wado Academy dan grading syllabus. I wondered what the heck it all was until I saw it last night.

3. (Imagine an opponent on all four sides) Uchi okuri ashi junzuki jodan – okuri ashi gyakuzuki jodan – okuri ashi maegeri chudan – junzuki gyakuzuki junzuki san ren zuki – tsugi ashi ushirogeri chudan – ushiro geri chudan – okuri ashi maegeri chudan – okuri ashi nagashi junzuki jodan – gyakuzuki chudan – feint to one side, other side tsugi ashi sokutogeri chudan – jun no uraken uchi doji ni gyaku no furiken uchi jodan – tsugi ashi mawashigeri chudan – ushiro e tsugi ashi de gedan no sabaki – ayumi ashi junzuki jodan gyakuzuki jodan renzuki – mawate okuri ashi maegeri chudan – okuri ashi mawashigeri chudan – onaji ashi de ashibari – jun no uraken uchi jodan – gyaku no furiken uchi chudan – jun no furiken jodan – hizageri chudan – do the same technique again in the opposite stance

As with most things its not about the end points, it's about how your body moves to support the actions and outcomes required.

Also, no gaps, no openings, smooth continuous motion. Any huffing and puffing, stop/stop, body-locking "kime" will make you stand out like a sore thumb.

I heard the comment "like kata"....

I count 28 techniques in that sequence, so in the Dan test, on top of everything else you will have to do 2 sets of 28 techniques in rapid succession? I'll bet the examiner just calls out "no.3" rather than read it all out!

In JKF Wadokai, the dan test is the complete opposite; from 1st dan to 6th dan, everyone does the same - 10 basic techniques, kihon gumite, kata and free fighting. From 3rd or 4th dan - I don't recall which - they add one extra kata and one extra kihon gumite. For the most part, the kata choice is limited to kushanku, seishan, chinto or neseishi,although you could choose one of the others if you wanted to.

It is an interesting contrast in approach. I don't know if Wadokai has always had this simple approach or if it is more recent. I think the western way can be traced back to the original ABKA syllabus which Suzuki put together. Even groups which have long since headed off on their own paths tend to use that same syllabus.

I wonder what the Wadoryu Renmei syllabus is like in Japan - does anyone know?

Trevor - regarding the terms used, for the most part, you probably do them in training already it is just with names put to them. You might have 'zenshinshite' in your list whereas in the quote above, this term is replaced with "ayumiashi". "Tsugi ashi" is something most people figure out to do in their own training, it is sometime called "ushiro ashi"..but the use of the term "ashi" could be slightly misleading, it just helps describe which way to move.

Ben

[WadoAJ]

Hi Ben,

not sure I can agree zenshinshite being the same as ayumi ashi..

AJ

[blackcat]

Hi Ben,

not sure I can agree zenshinshite being the same as ayumi ashi..

AJ

Hi AJ

If you have another read of what I've written, it isn't quite as you've understood it.

Ben

[WadoAJ]

Hi Ben,

I have never actually read About it..

AJ

[blackcat]

Hi Ben,

I have never actually read About it..

AJ

You've lost me there AJ - I thought your previous post was a comment on the clarification I offered on the terminology? No matter, maybe there is a more mileage in discussing the original post about the grading / grading technique.

Ben

[WadoAJ]

Hi Ben,

I have never actually read About it..

AJ

You've lost me there AJ - I thought your previous post was a comment on the clarification I offered on the terminology? No matter, maybe there is a more mileage in discussing the original post about the grading / grading technique.

Ben

I mean that I never read about it, but was shown. What I saw was more then one "step". However, perhaps ayumi ashi does not refer to just one step like in junzuki. This is how I use ayumi ashi though..

AJ

[wadoka]

Ben, I don't know whether the grading panel will ask for two or more of each of the three long combinations.

The grading syllabus is not that big, but ok these ones do look long.

http://wado.karateforum.com/syllabus/

[Gusei21]

Words words words...

Zenshinshite in that context means 'go forward then...'
ayumiashi means the footwork you use when you walk forward as in the left foot steps forward then the right foot steps forward...in the way that 90 percent of the world population walks straight.

So technically if you zenshin then you can ayumu (step forward as in walking) or you can crawl on the ground (you are still going forward).
There are as many ways of zenshining as there are ways of moving forward (sticking a rocket up your butt).

In common context if someone says zenshinshite I will assume they want me to step forward by bringing the back leg forward and making that the new front foot. But I guess you can hop on a skateboard to accomplish the same action.

As for the JKF Wadokai test it has not changed much in the nearly 40 years that I remember. Our way of thinking is different. It is not an issue of quantity or doing obscure movements that would require me to secretly write down the movements on the back of my hand like a crib sheet (which I did frequently in grade school during kanji exams). In the Wadokai it is all about the kihon. We can tell the quality of the person just by looking at the junzuki. If it were up to Takagi Sensei just doing junzuki would be enough to determine whether you can pass the dan or not. A few years ago for the 7th dan test the TC had eliminated junzuki. The only kihon today is tobikomizuki and nagashizuki. But Takagi Sensei on the day of the examination announced that he was adding junzuki because he said if you can't do junzuki then you should just go home now..... I realize opinions may differ on this. That is fine. I am just explaining the logic. Junzuki permeates into everything we do. If you can't do that then you should go home. And if you are still doing a shodan junzuki when you are going for godan then you should also go home. If you don't know the difference in quality of the two then find someone who can show you.....so goes the logic. I have a feeling Oneya could expand broadly on this subject :)

[Aslan]

As for the JKF Wadokai test it has not changed much in the nearly 40 years that I remember. Our way of thinking is different. It is not an issue of quantity or doing obscure movements that would require me to secretly write down the movements on the back of my hand like a crib sheet (which I did frequently in grade school during kanji exams). In the Wadokai it is all about the kihon. We can tell the quality of the person just by looking at the junzuki. If it were up to Takagi Sensei just doing junzuki would be enough to determine whether you can pass the dan or not. A few years ago for the 7th dan test the TC had eliminated junzuki. The only kihon today is tobikomizuki and nagashizuki. But Takagi Sensei on the day of the examination announced that he was adding junzuki because he said if you can't do junzuki then you should just go home now..... I realize opinions may differ on this. That is fine. I am just explaining the logic. Junzuki permeates into everything we do. If you can't do that then you should go home. And if you are still doing a shodan junzuki when you are going for godan then you should also go home. If you don't know the difference in quality of the two then find someone who can show you.....so goes the logic. I have a feeling Oneya could expand broadly on this subject :)

If I'll train for forty years only junzuki and get great results in this, can I say that I really have a high dan in Wado?
IMHO it would be nice to add to JKF wadokai syllabus such original and wonderfull things, as tantodori and idori. They are undeservedly forgotten.
This is my humble personal opinion)

[blackcat]

If I'll train for forty years only junzuki and get great results in this, can I say that I really have a high dan in Wado?
IMHO it would be nice to add to JKF wadokai syllabus such original and wonderfull things, as tantodori and idori. They are undeservedly forgotten.
This is my humble personal opinion)

Aslan

Their grading is a bit broader than just junzuki, but junzuki is the most basic technique and so will shows any flaws. For the most part, JKF Wadokai dojo in Japan don't train idori or tantodori, its only a few dojo with a special interest in them. There are different ways to train too - like old style tantodori or demonstration tantodori. Same with idori - Wadokai made a standardised video so you could say that is the agreed model but there are some other approaches.

I don't think there is an case for one grading system being better than the other. For the most part, the European way is a physical test developed from Tatsuo Suzuki's approach, you need to be fit to take the test and I suspect what the example at the start of this thread is intended to illustrate, is how (well) individuals are able to apply the principles they've learned in training. JKF Wadokai (in Japan) is the opposite, in that the test is not in itself physically exhausting; what the examiners want to see is if you have grasped the basic principles. Maybe its two faces of the same coin.

I would be interested to learn about the grading approach in the USA by Ajari, Osaka and Kurobane.

Ben