Uniting wado groups

[kyudo]

The more I think about it, the more I tend to think it doesn't really matter. The idea of large organisations with many clubs belonging to them seems to me to be a relatively new thing in the history of martial arts. I may be wrong, but historically, my understanding is that it would have been just masters teaching students, some of whom would go on to open their own schools and teach their new students, sometimes in the style of their own master or sometimes changing things along the way. There didn't seem to be any need for overarching organisations.

True.
But then the world was different.

I, for one, can live with a world where wado is divided in factions. However, we will (and already do) face a question. The questions is: what is wado? The only one who could answer that question passed away a few decades ago. But the answer determines who makes part of our happy family and who does not. Moreover, different groups will claim their own flavor of wado as the genuine product. For now, the 3 big factions still respect eachother as legitimate representatives of the style. But as the differences grow, there will come a time when that becomes impossible. On smaller scale, it already happens with the "one off weirdos" as Gusei calls them. Many a "weirdo" claims to offer the real thing. But why are they weird? For no other reason than having less followers than the majority within the 3 factions. (BTW, I'm not referring to Shintani. He was more of a scam artist than a weirdo.)

So in the long run, I don't think the current situation is sustainable. Wadoryu as we know it today will probably cease to exist and we'll all become offshoots of Ohtsuka's original style. Then again, so what? That's how it has always been. It may actually be for the best. Perhaps it's good to remind ourselves that Ohtsuka also started out as a weirdo, dabbling in some foreign 'chinese hand' techniques.

[oneya]

I thought Ohtsuka meijin started out around 6 years of age in Shindo Yoshin Ryu and was quite an accomplished martial artist before getting mixed up with the revered Okinawan gentleman..? Hardly a weirdo Igor.

oneya

[kyudo]

I thought Ohtsuka meijin started out around 6 years of age in Shindo Yoshin Ryu and was quite an accomplished martial artist before getting mixed up with the revered Okinawan gentleman..? Hardly a weirdo Igor.

Ok. That was overstated.

What I mean is that he left the beaten path and followed his own, unusual course. And I bet that at the time more than a few people regarded him as a renegate, a dropout and -yes- even a weirdo for doing so. As most people generally do when seeing someone go astray...
Offcourse all that changed when he gained fame and following and in turn became the leader of the mainstream.

My point is that departing from the mainstream is often perceived as weird. And I don't mean that in any negative or derogative manner. I proudly consider myself weird too, in my own particular way. You need to be slightly M.A.D. (Making A Difference) to go against the stream and create something new.

If you're looking for tomorrow's Ohtsuka -or Steve Jobs, for that matter- seek out today's weirdos.

[kyudo]

Let's look at this from an evolutionary perspective…

Evolution requires variation of traits within a population. In other words: evolution cannot exist without mutants. Most mutants disappear, but some are succesful. Ohtuska was a very succesful mutant. From him new large branch of MA sprung to life.
What we see now is the appearance of new variations, new mutants in the evolutionary proces of wado. In a way, that is what happened with the split. We didn't see it that way at the time, but I think we'll come to see it that way in the future. All 3 factions will, over time, form their own evolutionary branch, with their own variations and their own mutants. Perhaps a few of those branches will disappear over time. And new branches will spring to life and be succesful. That's just the natural flow of things.
Trying to tie seperate branches together is useless in the grander scheme of things. It's about as silly as trying to merge wadoryu with SYR. They're two different branches, each with its own individual strengths and weaknesses.

[go rin no sho]

Kyudo,

I posted a reply but decided to delete it. Too complex. Interesting thoughts though.

[Tim49]

...... My sensei has been at this for a good few decades, and like many of the older karate men, doesn't appreciate being told what to do. He keeps teaching wado the way it was taught to him by his sensei, with the occasional new thing of his own thrown in. Even if we were to join the Wadokai, he would still keep doing exactly as he does now. Nothing would really change. The only difference really would be that the Wadokai may try (and would probably fail) to get him to standardise some kata, where no doubt there are slight differences, or terminology or grading syllabuses. But basically, we would still be practicing the same thing every week that we do now.

Welcome Mark,
Just curious, how does one qualify to be one of the ‘older karate men’?
What are the criteria?

Tim

[Gusei21]

My sensei has been at this for a good few decades, and like many of the older karate men, doesn't appreciate being told what to do. He keeps teaching wado the way it was taught to him by his sensei, with the occasional new thing of his own thrown in. Even if we were to join the Wadokai, he would still keep doing exactly as he does now. Nothing would really change.

It would be his loss. The Wadokai would be good for him but only if he wanted to get better. Or Wadoryu. You can't get better if you don't have an open mind and listen to people who are accomplished in the art. I see this many times when Japanese Wadokai instructors go back to Japan for some function and when they get on the floor they mentally shut down and refuse to assimilate what they are being shown by Arakawa/Hakoishi/Takagi. They end up failing their examination and they take refuge in idiotic rationalization/reasoning.
'I can't help it, I was taught that way decades ago'... 'I'm too old to change'.. stupid stuff like that. Their loss.

Kyudo...as for all that mutation talk....geez...NO!.
What is this stuff about Wado changing? We have not existed long enough. We have not crawled far enough from the source to evolve yet. He just died in the 80's for crying out loud!!!
It is not like we are doing some ancient martial art long lost in the annals of whatever...
I bet you that if you put Oneya, Tim, Wadoka, Blackcat, myself and a few others on the floor together then most people will not be able to tell us apart technically. Why? Because our base is the same.
Whether the base be Suzuki, Shiomitsu, Sugasawa, Iwasaki, Takagi, whomever, we are all basically doing the same stuff. If you don't look like us then you are not doing Wado.
Very Simple.

[kyudo]

What is this stuff about Wado changing? We have not existed long enough. We have not crawled far enough from the source to evolve yet. He just died in the 80's for crying out loud!!!

You're right.

Now take a step back and look again.
You're still right.

Take a hundred steps back and look again.
Does it still look the same?

Now jump to Mars and look from there.
I bet things look completely different from that distance.

So what did you take away from this?
You now have come to realize that I'm out-of-this-world crazy.

:-)

[oneya]

Let's look at this from an evolutionary perspective…

Evolution requires variation of traits within a population. In other words: evolution cannot exist without mutants. Most mutants disappear, but some are succesful. Ohtuska was a very succesful mutant. From him new large branch of MA sprung to life.
What we see now is the appearance of new variations, new mutants in the evolutionary proces of wado. In a way, that is what happened with the split. We didn't see it that way at the time, but I think we'll come to see it that way in the future. All 3 factions will, over time, form their own evolutionary branch, with their own variations and their own mutants. Perhaps a few of those branches will disappear over time. And new branches will spring to life and be succesful. That's just the natural flow of things.
Trying to tie seperate branches together is useless in the grander scheme of things. It's about as silly as trying to merge wadoryu with SYR. They're two different branches, each with its own individual strengths and weaknesses.

Igor,

If we are talking about evolution then I have to think there is a difference between mutation and transcendence which is why there is little enough of it about, evolution I mean, certainly not enough to go around it seems.

oneya

[Mark]

Welcome Mark,
Just curious, how does one qualify to be one of the ‘older karate men’?
What are the criteria?

Tim

I don't have any specific criteria in mind, but he's pushing 70, if that helps.

It would be his loss. The Wadokai would be good for him but only if he wanted to get better. Or Wadoryu. You can't get better if you don't have an open mind and listen to people who are accomplished in the art. I see this many times when Japanese Wadokai instructors go back to Japan for some function and when they get on the floor they mentally shut down and refuse to assimilate what they are being shown by Arakawa/Hakoishi/Takagi. They end up failing their examination and they take refuge in idiotic rationalization/reasoning.
'I can't help it, I was taught that way decades ago'... 'I'm too old to change'.. stupid stuff like that. Their loss.

I should perhaps not try to speak for my sensei on here, since he is quite capable of speaking for himself should he want to, and also I run the risk of accidentally misrepresenting him, either by misunderstanding him myself or by not explaining myself clearly enough. I didn't mean to imply that he is unwilling or unable to change. Far from it: I have seen him on some occasions, for example, change the way he performs a particular move in a kata after being shown a better way to do it. I only meant that there are people who practise what they would consider to be wado, having been taught it by some of the earliest wado practitioners, but they don't feel the need to be validated by any organisation, be it Wadokai or any of the others.